AMERICAN FLUTE
64
By: Wayne Brown
In a recent speech in Ohio, Obama stated, “Together there is not one problem we cannot solve”. That sounds like something that a leader might say as he begins to introduce potential solutions to his listening audience. It is a point of emphasis used to say that our collective effort far outweighs that of any individual effort. It becomes the rally cry for those involved to band together and move forward toward eradicating the problem. And, yes, all that would be true if indeed those words had been spoken by a true leader but in this case they were not, they were spoken by a man who occupies the office of the President of the United States who has failed at leadership at every turn since taking office in 2008. On that basis, what purpose can employing such a statement hold for this President?
Obama rose to his high office on the back of promises made yet never completed. He sold “change” like hot dog vendors shout their wares at the afternoon baseball game yet he was never really challenged to back it up or produce anything. The statement noted above contains plenty of messages but they have little or nothing to do with leadership or inspiring people to do the right thing. Obama uses the statement for one reason and that becomes clear when you look at his actions. He wants the majority of Americans to latch on to his direction of movement without questioning it. Using the word “together”, he cites the sense of belonging; of being a part of something bigger than the individual. He wants people to act on their sense and need for belonging. He also wants to issue the assurance that problems will be addressed and eliminated but leaves the specifics off the table. His need is for momentum among the masses in a blind direction more so than support in solving problem or eliminating an obstacle. For the moment, he is the “Pied Piper” calling to the children to blindly follow him out of the city to God knows where. The question then becomes, “are the children too stupid to ask or question?” He is counting on the fact that they will be too enthralled with the music to question the destination or fate. Remember the 2008 mantra…”Yes We Can”….”Yes We Can What?”
Obama hawked the concept of “change” throughout his initial attempt to gain the presidency. He spoke of “fundamental transformation” and how Americans could work together to make America great again. He used a lot of “feel good” talk which was backed up by nothing of substance. Unfortunately, neither the American public of 2008 nor the mainstream media raised any real challenge to the meaning behind his words. Once in office, it became clear that he had only two real intentions in terms of change…bigger, ever-growing government and spending beyond the scope of any ever witnessed in the history of the country.
The re-election process is maturing and once the Republicans identify a nominee, the head to head battle for the Presidency will be on for 2012. Obama cannot run on the record of his accomplishments, that fact is crystal clear. He cannot run on the promise of “hope and change” as he has already had almost a full term in office to demonstrate that strategy. Little has taken place and what has certainly does not represent progress or improvement in terms of sustaining our country under the framework of the Constitution and the Rule of Law. Essentially, the only measurable accomplishment of the first term in office of the Obama Administration is an approximate 20% expansion in the size of the federal government, healthcare legislation which when fully enacted will cost the taxpayers far more than any previous programs and likely provide less care in the process, and an added six trillion or more dollars to the ever-tilting scales of the national debt. In essence, anything related to the past four years is bankrupt in terms of giving an elective edge to Obama.
That said, Obama is left come up with new strategies which will most certainly be creations from the Saul Alinsky play-book, “Rules For Radicals”. To boil Mr. Alinsky’s theories down to a state of simplicity, one can simply assume that nothing is as it appears it if it comes from the brain trust of that philosophy. Given that Obama admittedly worships at the Alinsky altar, one can be quite sure Alinsky will play into the 2012 campaign strategy for Obama. In fact, we are already getting a taste of it. Obama has harped on the rich and generally stirred the pot of class envy and resentment at every turn in the past few months. Now he comes forward with the statement, “Together there is no problem we cannot solve”. Remember, nothing is as it appears and such is the case here. Obama on the one hand is calling for a collective effort to eliminate our problems; while on the other hand, he is inserting divisiveness or envy between Americans. Stir in a bit of unrest and violence from the “Occupy” crowd as the election draws near and we have the recipe for an unstable climate in which far too many Americans resist making any change at all.
Obama will toss “hope and change” into the ditch as a used commodity of past elections and move on to talk of solidarity and new directions for the country. In his normal way, he will never really tell you where he intends to go other than to hint at the “utopia” that America could be if only enough of us will behind his campaign and send him back to office for another term. That additional term will allow him the time he needs to unite Americans in a common effort toward making America great again. Remember that nothing is as it seems thus we can easily assume that nothing has really changed with Obama except that he is replacing the components or “buzz-words” of his campaign. No matter, all of it is simply campaign rhetoric and will be tossed aside once his re-election is assured. He then can get on with the agenda that he put in place early on in his first term…that of growing government to be the central entity in the lives of Americans; spending our way to prosperity, and generally destroying the middle class of the country so that the only thing left is the “haves” and the “have-nots”. Government will continue to domineer over the private sector; the economy will continue to languish in stagnation leaving unemployment at higher than tolerable numbers and more and more Americans will begin to feel the pain of a country bound to the depths of bankruptcy led by a bankrupt leader with every intention of breaking the back of capitalism and eliminating individual initiative and success in our society.
Nothing is as it seems. We have listened to Obama talk about how he would get Washington working again like it should be only to see a full first term go by without one annual budget for the federal government being past; watch time and again as Congress “temporarily” extends some deadline because no one can find a basis of compromise within their politics to take precedence over stubborn, bull-headed career politicians. From Obama & Company’s perspective, it is beneath the dignity of the President to referee or attempt to shape the Congressional politics for the best interest of America. It is unfortunate for therein lies the one opportunity in which Obama could demonstrate some level of leadership to the American people. Instead, he will distance himself from that involvement, spend his time on the golf course or taking vacations and assume that all the short-comings of his administration will be laid at the feet of those who serve in Congress which is probably a pretty good bet if I understand the American public like I think I do. From Obama’s perspective, his journey to greatness could have reached even loftier heights had he not been hamstrung by a dysfunctional legislative branch incapable of acting on the best interest of America.
So the carrot dangles out there having been issued forth on the tongue of President Obama. “Together there is no problem we cannot solve”. The carrot dangles like a baited-hook in front of a hungry trout. Hanging there until that moment when the fish takes the bait and the hook gets set to reel it in. The 2012 campaign for leadership and unity has been launched by the President and he stands waiting for the public to board his bus once again and ride through another term with him. Nothing is as it seems and no one better understands that than Obama as he baits the hook once again and waits for the fish.
How successful will this new effort be for 2012? That answer depends greatly on how the opposition approaches the election process. If the Republicans allow Obama to set the tone in the race and work solely on the basis of responding to his calls, then it can only work in his favor. The opposition has the means, the facts, and the ability to go after Obama with a full-frontal assault keeping his lack of accomplishment and miserable leadership record in the forefront at every juncture and keeping him and his handlers on the defensive. That message needs to be there every single day at every single opportunity for the American public to absorb and dwell upon. Then as Obama comes forth spewing his new words of unity and leadership, the public can measure it against the backdrop of the realities of his first term in office. Some might recall the attacks of Bill Clinton on George Bush Sr. with a focus on the economy in that historic election year when everyone was convinced that the incumbent could not lose. “It’s the economy, stupid”, was the phrase designed to keep Clinton and company on focus and on message and it was effective.
A second element to consider and a very real possibility is a possible splintering within the conservative ranks. Given Ron Paul’s mediocre performance in Iowa, it is likely that his campaign for the Republican nomination will slowly drift into the sunset as more and more states sort out the nominee process. Now, if Mr. Paul was a true conservative who really cared about “conservative values” being re-instilled in the country, he nor any other conservative for that matter would not contemplate running for the office of the President as an independent. If that should happen, America will see the “conservative voter base” splinter between the Republican nominee and some smaller faction willing to support the independent. In the end, the effect will be nothing more than a “spoiler” role just like the one played by Ross Perot when George Bush Sr. went down in defeat. If that scenario takes place, Obama will never leave the White House in 2012 and America may eventually be only a forgotten memory lost in the mass rumble of financial destruction and socialist manipulation.
Anytime a politician tells us that “together there is no problem we cannot solve”, we need to be looking for the other shoe to fall. To let that statement stand on its own is simple to prop up the false promise of assurance that good things will happen without ever receiving any factual assurance as to “how” or “at what costs”? It is time that someone began asking the hard questions of those seeking to serve America and demanding that answers be forthcoming in great detail. At one time, Americans could count on the media to carry that mantra…those days are over. No longer is the media part of the solution…it is part of the problem. One only has to witness their foaming at the mouth over the President’s speaking of those words noted above to realize it. The magic flute is already playing its tune.
©Copyright WBrown2012. All Rights Reserved.
4 Jan 2012
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Never Love. That would mean they'd have come up with ideas.
Good job, Wayne, as always; you managed to portray Obama as a shiftless do-nothing (unfairly and code for negro, imho) while peddling Ronnie as the true benchmark for leadership.
The problem being however, that Reagan's stance toward the Savings and Loan industry contributed to the Savings and loan crisis and his policies partially influenced the stock market crash of 1987. In order to cover newly spawned federal budget deficits, the United States borrowed heavily both domestically and abroad, raising the national debt to the trillions instead of billions. Reagan described the new debt as the "greatest disappointment" of his presidency. Reagan's deficits were a major reason why his successor, George H. W. Bush, reneged on a campaign promise and raised taxes.
If you compare Obama and Reagan in terms of tax increases, Obama wins handily.
From an NPR story by Scott Horsley - "Ronald Reagan's Legacy Clouds Tax Record"
Former Senator ALAN SIMPSON (Republican, Wyoming): "Ronald Reagan raised taxes 11 times in his administration. I was here. I was here. I knew him. Better than anybody in this room. He was a dear friend and a total realist as to politics."
Professor DOUGLAS BRINKLEY (Rice University): Ronald Reagan was never afraid to raise taxes. He knew that it was necessary at times. And so there's a false mythology out there about Reagan as this conservative president who came in and just cut taxes and trimmed federal spending in a dramatic way. It didn't happen that way. It's false.
HORSLEY: Reagan's budget director, David Stockman, explains the 1981 tax cut blew a much bigger hole in the federal budget than expected. So over the next few years, Reagan agreed to raise taxes again and again . . .
Mr. DAVID STOCKMAN (Former Director, Office Management and Budget): He wasn't very happy about it. He did it reluctantly. But at the end of the day, the math was overwhelming.
FLINTOFF: That's because Reagan was never able to match his 1981 tax cuts with a comparable cut in federal spending. A modest reduction in domestic spending was dwarfed by Reagan's big buildup in the Pentagon budget. And, Stockman says, Reagan never made a serious effort to challenge middle class entitlement programs, after an early proposal to curtail Social Security benefits was shot down.
Mr. STOCKMAN: The White House and President Reagan himself retreated within three days when it became clear the enormous political resistance that would occur if you were going to cut entitlements.
FLINTOFF: And without big spending cuts, Reagan faced a choice between raising taxes and an even bigger federal debt. He chose the tax hikes. Today the federal debt's bigger than ever, and policymakers are again staring at painful choices. President Obama's fiscal commission says both deep spending cuts and tax increases will be needed to bring the budget under control. But ever since Reagan, presidents who've tried to raise taxes are confronted with the myth of their tax-cutting predecessor.
What puzzles historian Brinkley is how Reagan, who also raised taxes, avoided paying a political price.
Prof. BRINKLEY: He seemed to get away with both. He seemed to really be kind of a centrist, big government deficit spender, but also be seen as a budget cutter. And it's because his persona was so great.
FLINTOFF: That persona is carefully cultivated by those, like Grover Norquist, who use Reagan's legacy as a weapon to fight off new taxes. Stockman says these myth-makers are distorting the real Reagan record.
Mr. STOCKMAN: I wouldn't call it merely airbrushing. I would call it outright revisionism if not fabrication of history.
HORSLEY: Stockman still believes tax cuts are good policy in some circumstances. But for too many politicians, he says, they've become a kind of religion. To these tax-cutting faithful, Ronald Reagan is a patron saint. Like many saints, his real story is not as pristine as the legend. But for those worried about today's red ink, it may be a more practical guide.
And finally Wayne, Obama has gotten us out of Iraq and an unnecessary war while Reagan got us into Grenada and Iran-Contra.
I have a feeling that Ronald Reagan couldn't get elected today because he was more "liberal" than Obama!
Lets see if the recently popular Haiku works for making a comment:
A Flute of Silver
Mesmerized over the Cliff
American Way?
@LoveMyChris...Seems a poor choice of labels...the Democrats are the ones who slipped from the majority position in the legislature so they are the ones suffering the hissy-fit syndrome. Kudos to Harry Reid for his abililties at circumventing the legislative process on any proposals put forth. You might remember that during the budget extension debate, Republicans agreed to Obama's requests then only to have Obama jerk the rug out from under the deal by adding another half billion dollars to the proposal at the last minute...looks like the wheels are coming off on the left-side as far as working together goes. WB
@TeaPartyCrasher...Better ideas than hairbrained socialist schemes, I say. WB
@Wizard of Whimsy...Oh Wiz...Just remember YOU are the one who tossed the race card on the table. My least concern is the color of this man's skin...I am far more concerned with the color of his politics which seem to communist red at this point. I also did not use Reagam to get sidelined in some debate over his presidency. Whether that was a success or not is for history to decide. The point being, we did not come out of the first term of Reagan's Administration hell-bent-for leather toward a socialist society. I cannot say the same of Obama. Obama doesn't care about raising taxes or eliminating debt. He has an agenda that has nothing to do with either and it is totally entrenched in the principles of socialism. To make it fly, he first has to break the back of America economically and then he can tear down the government and start over tossing the Constitution out into the middle of Pennsylvania Avenue after he wipes his feet on it. That's the point here and I hope folks keep bringing that argument until we run this one out of town. He needs to go and he needs to go by January of 2013 if we are to sustain capitalism and democracy in the USA. BTW...thanks for all the mindless dialogue. WB
@FitnezzJim...Gone on with it, Jim, you poetic dawg! WB
Barack Obama is on track to put us in more debt than all other presidents combined. That alone makes him a disastrous president.
Add that to his anti-business/anti-job policies, and he's in line for worst president ever.
Oh please Wayne, spare us all the the red-baiting Communist/Socialist character assassination. You brought up Reagan; his actions were no less socialist than Obama's. Ronnie would never even discuss entitlements—Obama is willing to put it on the table.
Wrt Capitalism, it trumps democracy at every turn, now that it has returned to its unregulated past of cronyism and Darwinian greed, thanks to W. and the Republican party. You can blame Obama for it all, but the fact is, the Bush years destroyed too much of the American dream to fix it in just three and a half years.
The recession of 2008 can be laid directly at the feet of the Democrats, and their Fannie and Freddie creations. They pushed getting people into homes they could not afford, and now here we are.
And yes, Obama grew up on Marxism, including his church of twenty years, so here we are.
Great hub. I would have to say from what I've seen lately, it seems that more people are not as happy with Obama than they first expected they would be. The Republicans seem to have a questionable bunch running for president and the best one in the bunch in my opinion Michele Bachmann just dropped out. So I believe it will be an interesting race for the presidency.
@Wizard of Whimsy...Please Whiz...your buddy Bill Clinton set up the nightmare that ended in a collapsed housing bubble in late 2008 and a democratically dominated Congress turned a blind eye for months prior. You might want to look back and see the point at which the spending increases started to rocket...when the democrats took control of the legislative process in 2007. You confuse Obama's intent with the current economic situation. His actions have nothing whatsoever to do with eliminating the economic stagnation or to improve the jobs picture. His every intention is to drag the country further and further into debt until it is mired so deeply that there are no avenues of retreat. With regard to entitlements, Reagan had the good sense to realize that good people had paid in their good money for Social Security and Medicare. From a public perspective, there is no one to fault on either of those programs. From a governmental perspective, both have been mismanaged and the funds have been squandered by those we entrusted with them. So, like the idiots we currently have running Washington, you think that all those people who paid into those programs for most of their working life should just shrug their shoulders and walk away. Hell No! I am not blaming Obama for the problems of Social Security or Medicare although his taking of $500 billion dollars out of the Medicare revenue stream to fund his national healthcare was a considerable blow to the future of that program.
Democracy is about one man and mone vote, plain and simple. In that concept, we are all equal if we can keep those out of it who want to sway the scales of equality at the voting booth. Capitalism on the other hand is about the opportunity for individual success and to some degree the trickle down that comes with it. It is about motivation and achievement and the opportunity to reap the bounty of one's investment. Given proper respect for the Constitution and the Rule of Law and anyone can be very happy under the concepts of Democracy and Capitalism.
The road Obama wants to head down leads to the utopia of "shared assets" all governed by ol' Big Brother down there at the federal government. The government decides how the money is divided and how it is spent. That might sound like security to some but believe me it comes at the price of freedom. In that process, people like Obama continue to enjoy the spoils while greater and greater numbers by the year join the class of the poor. It destroys the middle class which is the heart of America and much the basis of its success and growth.
We don't have to use the term "socialist" in the discussion if it is too harsh...we can substitute "community organizer"...they are one in the same...both worshiping at the altar of Alinsky. What a shame that we have a President in office who would actually admit that the poison spewed forth in the book, "Rules For Radicals" is one of his favorite books and part of his guiding principles. That action alone questions his intent and certainly raises flags as to his allegiance. WB
@WillStarr...Thanks Will...Clinton needs his just credit for setting that one up. WB
@zzron...Thank you...glad you liked the read. I was sorry to see Bachmann go as well as I thought she brought a positive element to the debate among the potential candidates. I fear Romney is a closet moderate who mirrors Obama on some subjects and I am a bit doubtful as to how much of the damage he will actually reverse. Ron Paul is the bomb hidden in the baggage compartment who may blow the wheels off the whole thing with his ego. In this particular election, it is imperative that Obama be defeated and some seats vacated out of Congress on the left...especially in the Senate. Paul has made it clear that he will consider running as an independent if he does not capture the Republican nomination. That is a totally selfish and egotistical act in this day and time as it will not expand the conservative voting base but will simply splinter it between two candidates just as Perot's run did to Bush Sr. in the 90's. It is the single act that will guarantee Obama another term in the White House and will likely spell the end of America as we have known it. WB
As someone who is making the move to America every time I see something like this I love to read it.
".Thanks Will...Clinton needs his just credit for setting that one up. WB"
This goes all the way back to FDR. Democrats, using taxpayer backing, created Freddie, Fannie, and the Community Reinvestment Act to pressure lenders to make the bad loans that resulted in a false housing bubble, and the ultimate collapse, giving us today's recession.
Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, and Bill Clinton, just to name a few, have been pushing this for years, but when it finally collapsed, they blamed it on Bush, and the media let them get away with it.
The Limbaugh propaganda gets thicker by the minute!
This Subprime Mortgage crisis is not the fault of Frank, Dodd, Clinton, Fannie & Freddie or Obama. How about the lenders? Homebuyers? Underwriters? Credit approval ratings agencies, Will?
The reality is that the economy was at risk of a deep recession after the dot-com bubble burst in early 2000. September 11 only made things worse. So how did the world respond? BANKS tried to stimulate the economy not just here in the United States but throughout the world.
That is what pushed lenders to take greater risks; like approving subprime mortgage loans to borrowers with poor credit or even some who had no jobs. Businesses like banks, real estate firms, and construction companies went out of their way to give mortgages to people who clearly did not have the means to pay them back. It was the consumer's demand that drove the housing bubble to its all-time high; and that didn't give us a happy ending, that gave us an incredibly high foreclosure rate.
What Mr. Limbaugh and Will conveniently forget is that the Republicans did their part too. As much as I like to blame G.W., the reality is President Bush did not do this alone; but he did contribute heavily. In the 1990s, President Bush was pushing his "ownership" society, encouraging everybody to purchase homes. On Oct. 15, 2002, at Georgetown University, President Bush said that there was a home ownership gap for minorities. He spoke of helping 5½ million more people to own their own home within the next five years. He called the program "American Dream Down Payment Fund." G.W. Bush was president during the time of this financial fallout. He was the captain of the ship. He cannot be absolved of his responsibility or in this case, blame for this problem, and neither can the top dogs at the Treasury under his command. The theory was that if Americans were homeowners, they would more likely vote Republican.
Stop the deceitful distorts!
Okay now, you write a brilliant, intelligent fact based hub and all sorts of people come out of the woodwork. What we have here is selective amnesia on the part of the liberal Dems who absolutely refuse to look at the facts . I don't care what party affiliation anyone is, shouldn't the truth trump blind allegiance to an ideology, especially a failed one? I think so. Up, useful, interesting and awesome.
"What we have here is selective amnesia on the part of the liberal Dems who absolutely refuse to look at the facts . I don't care what party affiliation anyone is, shouldn't the truth trump blind allegiance to an ideology, especially a failed one?"
HA! Amazing, in one breath a pejorative label about a party affiliation and in the very next sentence a comment on being unconcerned about party affiliation.
But where is the rebuttal that proves my facts false or incorrect?
The failed ideology here is Crony Capitalism and trickle-down Reaganomics!
"He sold “change” like hot dog vendors shout their wares at the afternoon baseball game "
that alone, SHOULD be enough to make people think...
Well, I guess we DID get "change"...but not the kind that America needs to be prosperous once agai.
Also, the video of Reagan explains it ALL so well.
Thanks once again Wayne for an inspiring read.
Chris
LOL! Well at least he wasn't a sideshow barker and huckster for Boraxo and GE . . .
I take it the Wizard thinks "liberal" is a pejorative term. Interesting...
"The Limbaugh propaganda gets thicker by the minute!"
I've noticed that you rely on that one quite a bit. If someone has an opinion that differs from yours, well, it must have come from Limbaugh. Only liberals like you have original thoughts, according to your own, very limited scope.
"This Subprime Mortgage crisis is not the fault of Frank, Dodd, Clinton, Fannie & Freddie or Obama. How about the lenders? Homebuyers? Underwriters? Credit approval ratings agencies, Will?"
None of that would have happened without Freddie, Fannie, and the CRA. Try a little honesty.
@The Wizard of Whimsy...The mortgage debacle is the exact reason the government should stay out of the private sector...there may have been some less than ethical processes executed but the government takes the primary blame for setting the environment. The government literally rammed these loan guarantees down the throats of the agencies and told them to throw out their book with regard to common sense lending principles. Don't blame stupidity on the criminal elements of our society when the government opened the barn door and left it open. WB
@The Wizard of Whimsy...I don't think there is any need to attempt prove the actions of financial institutions...it is a competitive market and all of them eventually have to take every legal gain they can get to stay in the hunt. On the other hand, I have yet to see you prove that Clinton, Barney Frank and Co. along with Fannie and Freddie did not create the basis for all of this. They are the ones who stepped up and guaranteed mortgages with government funds and advised creditors to ignore the risk for their exposure would be covered by the government. Then, when it all collapses, those rats in government want to jump ship and make it look like the financial side of the business did not comply....please. The Bush Administration advised Congress on seven separate occasions that the mortgage situation was volatile only to have it fall on the deaf eachs of the democratic-dominated House and Senate.
The point here is that we have a man in office who is incapable and unwilling to take the necessary steps to unleash the private sector from the government dog collar and let the economy move. This not done out of ignorance, it is done out of aim and plan. Six trillion dollars of additional accumulated debt in just over three years in office...an increase of more than one-third the level of the national debt and you still want to defend the actions of this pretender to democracy? Sad...WB
@Author Karin K.H....It is a great country and could be a whole lot better if we can clean the rats out of Washington and restore respect for Constitutional government and Rule of Law. Hang in there, we'll get 'er done or die trying. WB
@breakfastpop...Apparently there are those out there who still view Obama as a "victim" and see his superior intellect and potential greatness lost on a world they think conservatives created. It's like wrestling a hog in a mud hole...not long before you figure out that the hog actually likes it. Thanks,Poppy! WB
Dear Wayne,
You are one very wise man. I agree the hogs actually love the mud and the mud slinging, too!
As usual, excellent hub, Wayne, and thanks for the Reminder from Reagan. The guy we have in office now is but a tiny shadow of the great President Ronald Reagan.
I'm hoping and praying Sunday, January 20, 2013 will be a day of celebration as we watch Obama fly off into the history books as the worst president this country has ever had.
Again, excellent hub.
@breakfastpop...Thanks Poppy...I can throw a bit myself! WB
@Longhunter...I knew you were of sound mind! LOL! Yes...that is a ride I will gladly participate as a taxpayer in paying for and not complain at all. Of course, you have to remember that all the voters in the graveyards have not yet dropped their ballots so we could see a big surge for Obama at the last minute...wouldn't notsuprise me considering the manner in which this administration approaches voter identification. WB
"WillStarr Level 8 Commenter 17 hours ago
The recession of 2008 can be laid directly at the feet of the Democrats, and their Fannie and Freddie creations."
"Wayne Brown Hub Author 117 minutes ago
@The Wizard of Whimsy...The mortgage debacle is the exact reason the government should stay out of the private sector...there may have been some less than ethical processes executed but the government takes the primary blame for setting the environment.
. . . . On the other hand, I have yet to see you prove that Clinton, Barney Frank and Co. along with Fannie and Freddie did not create the basis for all of this."
CAUSES OF 2008 RECESSION [WIKIPEDIA]
On October 15, 2008, Anthony Faiola, Ellen Nakashima, and Jill Drew wrote a lengthy article in The Washington Post titled, "What Went Wrong".[46] In their investigation, the authors claim that former Federal Reserve Board Chairman Alan Greenspan, Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin, and SEC Chairman Arthur Levitt vehemently opposed any regulation of financial instruments known as derivatives. They further claim that Greenspan actively sought to undermine the office of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, specifically under the leadership of Brooksley E. Born, when the Commission sought to initiate regulation of derivatives. Ultimately, it was the collapse of a specific kind of derivative, the mortgage-backed security, that triggered the economic crisis of 2008.
"CAUSES OF 2008 RECESSION [WIKIPEDIA]"
Aaaah, Wikipedia!!! Now there's a source that can be trusted!!!
Wayne -- excellent Hub -- we agree getting the rats out of Washington is first -- including the Rat at the Top!Most informative and interesting read - UP! Best, Sis
I can always count on you for some down home common sense and you have come through again. He got in on empty promises and slogans. A lot of people believed him the first time around. I have to hope and pray they don't fall for it again.
Honestly, I see this being an up hill battle. So many do not work and just leech off the system and they like it that way. They will vote for him. I'm not talking about the people who just need some temporary help here. I'm talking about the life time dependents and generational recipients. Further, if he gets his way ,there will be a multitude of non citizens participating in the vote. We must be ever diligent in getting people out to vote who truly want what is best for America, not just themselves.
Thanks for what you do here! God bless.
"Aaaah, Wikipedia!!! Now there's a source that can be trusted!!!"
This from Limbaugh's parrot! You'll trust Fox and all of the other demagogues before you trust a non-biased, non-profit source that is built on expert consensus and world-wide unanimous agreement.
You can't rebut it, so you ignore it and deny it to be true.
Wallow in your bias and contradict the obvious.
Chris Hedges: "Brace Yourself! The American Empire Is Over & The Descent Is Going To Be Horrifying!"
"This from Limbaugh's parrot!"
Limbaugh again?
You're a real one trick pony, aren't you?
Since I'm not in the habit of high jacking someone else's hub, another time, another place, Wiz.
@Wizard of Whimsy...You don't suppose those unregulated derivatives might just have been high-risk government backed mortgages which over-populated the asset mix of too many institutions who were "banks" and regulated to a high degree by the FDIC? These institution saw the default rate climbing and unloaded the mix at discount rates...everyone had the same idea at the same time. Banks were especially afraid because the FDIC does not like "non-performing assets" on the books...i.e repossesed homes. Banks were close because their asset mix was sub-par in the eyes of the FDIC. Sure, they had government backing on the mortgage but how long can you wait for relief. I am really surprised that you can sit there and think that the government had no real role in this process when it all boils down to "dumb-ass" changes in the Fair Housing Act which we past because Clinton wanted to put a chicken in every pot at tax payer expense. Markets find their own levels...governments do not grow them. Economies find their own level...governments do not cure them...rather they destroy them. Employment finds its natural level like water because government does not "create" jobs...at best it takes itself out of the picture to avoid surpress them. Don't let the term "derivatives" sway you from the fact that the housing bubble burst because Clinton and his cronies falsely grew the market...plain and simplle. WB
@Angela Blair...Thanks much Angela...I agree with you totally! WB
@poetvix...Thank you. We all need to apply common sense and use our heads..2 plus 2 equals 4...always has...always will. When it doesn't...there is something rotten in Denmark. You are correct, this is an uphill battle because we have sat on our hands in silence to long. We can only hope that in 2012 America actually sees the wrath of the silent majority at the polls. Never before has the future of our country been more on the line...I believe that with every sense of my being. The right needs to get past this nominee process...we can win without the perfect candidate but we have to stay on focus and on message. The problem to a great degree is Obama and the damage he has done to this country. At the same time, we need a huge house cleaning in the legislative branch on both sides of the aisle...I am sick of Boehner crying on televison and doing nothing else. I am sick of Mitch McConnel playing the role of NFL nose tackle. We need people of intelligence and ability in Washington now. In most cases, we fall miserably short of that on both sides of the aisle. This is "our country" not theirs...we make the decisions either directly or indirectly. That message has to hit Washington squarely between the eyes in 2012 if we are to stop this slide into socialist decay. Our elected officials have squandered our futures and now they want us to write it off to an "entitlement mentality"....crap! I paid for my Social Security and Medicare for a long time and you are damn right...I am entitled! Don't squander my money and then try to paint me into the equation as some kind of welfare case! WB
@Longhunter...You go ahead and have your say. You are certainly not highjacking my hub anymore than the Wiz. We need to argue among ourselves...maybe we can find a way...Washington certainly is devoid of ideas. To hell with politics and left or right sides. We, as a public, have been duped for too many years by all of them and I for one am damn angry about it. Obama is only furthering the madness and using the weaknesses to exploit a move toward the socialist uptopia which he worships. We have far too many star-gazers in America who believe that people with evil intentions cannot occupy high office in this land. We are livng the reality of it right now and we really need to wake up from this bad dream before it goes on for another four years or ever how long Obama decides that he wants to be President. He is testing the Constitution and the Rule of Law at every turn to see who challenges him and how much. Congress sits mute. Judiciary sits mute. What happened to the "checks and balances" that were suppose to protect the citizens from out of control branches of our democratic government? Eventually, if there is not respect for the Constitution and the Rule of Law, what good is any of it? Anyone who shrugs that concern off and assumes that America will continue as the home of the brave and the land of the free is horribly mistaken. Chime in Longhunter! WB
Wayne, I didn't want to high jack your hub by coming back at Wiz. He and I have a bit of a history.
Back to Obama and his epic ineptocracy, how do you feel about his phony recess appointments? This guy is trashing the Constitution at every turn. How long before someone does something to legally stop him?
@Longhunter...I appreciate your consideration. The administration is trying to run through nominations on the basis of "semantics". Congress is in session and not in recess at this time. Obama knows that and has been advised by the justice department that his actions are not a good move. He could care less as his only real concern is how far he can push trashing the Constitution and the Rule of Law without challenge. Boehner and crew are gutless and will do nothing and that nothing will flow right over to Mitch McConnell and company in the Senate. They are miserably in violation of their duty in terms of their office in that they took an oath to uphold the Constitution not turn their heads the other way in the name of not wanting to cause any ripples for the Republican Party. We have a group of spineless Republicans in service today who are more concerned with strategy than protection of the Constitution and the American people. I, for one, am ashamed of them and do not relish association with them. America was established and built on principles. Washington has no principles today...regardless of which side of the aisle is talking. They have collectively stole us blind and squandered our future only to sit there and conjure their strategies for re-election. The bastards should all be in jail or at the very least headed home with the benefit of the lucrative benefits they have voted to themeselves. We need to wake up and take this country back. Time is of the essence. WB
Perfectly said, Wayne. Obama's arrogance surrounded by do-nothing Republicans and the complicit Dems has pushed this country's downfall into overdrive. I, too, am ashamed of the people we have in government, especially Obama and his administration.
In your opinion, has Obama crossed that line into impeachable territory? I realize it won't happen as long as Reid is in office and due to time but it sure would be nice to see that arrogant bastard brought up on charges and kicked out of office.
"the Bush years destroyed too much of the American dream to fix it in just three and a half years"
Yes, and now they want to go back in and finish the job.
Democrats in gvt are the only thing standing between total corporate take-over.
God help us if Citizens United allows the Koch Bros and Murdochs of the world to take our country.
They already have their World Police Thugs taking care of OWS, and any citizen who speaks out.
We need to stand with the Dems against this brutal and tyrannical Republicorp.
@Longhunter...If one adheres to the word and the spirit of the Constitution, he likely has committed acts which he should at the very least be called on by the legislative branch. The "checks and balances" system assumed that all players had a "respect for the Constitution and the Rule of Law". In this time, that is not the case as we have a rogue President acting like some kind of banana republic tin-horn dictator and basically daring anyone to call him on it. As long as Holder is at the DOJ you can expect that side of the equation to remain mute and in support. You might recall the days of Watergate when things got particularly nasty between Nixon and Congress. Nixon thumbed his nose at them but they held their ground and demanded that he comply which he eventually did. In that case, it was democrats going after a republican and the media loved it. Boehner and company are too afraid of any negative press to push the issue and are unwilling to launch the trek. In the end, their silence sends the message that Obama wants to hear...he is unopposed even in those places where there is majority opposition. Boehner is Speaker of the House and close in line in the succession to the Presidency. Surely, he, if anyone, would know when Congress is or is not technically in recess. It is one thing for a sitting President to test the system a bit. It is another for bonified socialist to use the office to carry out his long-term agenda. Those who actually believe that he has their interest in mind are blinded by words and oblivious to his actions in relation to those words. This is not an action-adventure-drama playing out at the cinema which we can leave behind us at the end of the movie...this is for real and it needs to end. WB
@Love My Chris...the major destruction coming out of the last Bush Adminstration was the lame duck spending of the sitting majority of the democrats in the 2007 Congress and the lack of action on their parts when warned that the fake housing bubble created by Clinton, Barney Frank and friends was about to collapse on top of them. The Kochs and the Murdochs are certainly not cut from the same fabric as the raging socialist George Soros who seems to be the one with his hand up the back of Obama's coat directing his socialist agenda. The Kochs and Murdochs may be interested in seeing the Constitution upheld; democracy sustanined, and capitalism kept in place and that might seem an awful thing to you but it beats the hell out of living in a socialist state with big government at the center making all the decisions about every aspect of our lives. You make it very clear that you are more than willing to turn over your liberties in trade for anything which looks like security. Individual achievement and success are elementary to the success and progress as a nation. These are the engines that drive our progress and create a better life for us all over time. In the process, those efforts enhance the economy and brings a greater sense of security to those who enjoy jobs and income from it. Big governments do not produce economies with any successful outcome nor do they produce jobs outside those in the government machine itself. Big government is a cancer eating at us from the inside out and Obama and those who populate the legislative branch are feeding that monster at every turn. If you want to direct your anger at something, forget the Kochs and the Murdochs and hold some of these thieving bastards holding office in Washington accountable for squandering the assets of Social Security and Medicare on pork-barrel spending, for passing government-run healthcare legistlation in the the middle of the night, for increasing the national debt load by more than one-third of it total size in less than four years, and for pouring taxpayer money down blackholes with happy buzzword names like "solar energy" at a rate that no country can sustain...onlty to have that money show back up in the coffers of those in the democrat party seeking re-election. If you don't see the money-laundering that is going on here right before your eyes, then you'll never notice the other changes which will eventually invade your life and your liberty as a citizen of a once great nation. You may be one who wants to sit idly by and let Obama drag us into the same quagmire that Europe is sitting in right now but I for one will not go down that easily or stupidly. Sit there and blame capitalism and individual achievement all you want...it's the heart of class envy 101 which seems to be your favorite subject. Obama might just give you a gold star for being such a good pupil of his "community organizer" efforts. By the way, there is another term for "community organizer"that you might not recognize..."socialist". WB
"Democrats in gvt are the only thing standing between total corporate take-over"
The danger is not and never has been, corporations. The danger is and always has been, big government.
Corporations don't start wars. Corporations don't conduct purges killing millions of people. Corporations don't create Nazis and fascists. Tyrannical governments are and always have been the problem!
Will:
Corporations may not create Nazis and Fascists, but one trait of both, IMO, was a sort of 'Corporate State'.
Much like what the GOP seems to want.
Wikipedia:
Conservatism
Conservatives and fascists have held mutual positions on issues, including anti-communism and support of national pride.[70] Conservatives and fascists both reject the liberal and Marxist emphasis on linear progressive evolution in history.[71]
Fascism's emphasis on order, discipline, hierarchy, martial virtues, and preservation of private property appealed to conservatives. 147.
Fascists' promotion of "healthy", "uncontaminated" elements of national tradition such as chivalric culture and glorifying a nation's historical golden age have similarities with conservative aims.[72] Fascists also made pragmatic tactical alliances with traditional conservative forces in order to achieve and maintain power.[72]
Unlike conservatism, fascism specifically presents itself as a modern ideology that is willing to break free from moral and political constraints of traditional society.[73]
The conservative authoritarian right is distinguished from fascism in that such conservatives utilized traditional religion as the basis for their views while fascists focused based their views on more complex issues such as vitalism, nonrationalism, or secular neo-idealism.[74]
Many of fascism's recruits were disaffected right-wing conservatives who were dissatisfied with the traditional right's inability to achieve national unity and its inability to respond to socialism, feminism, economic crisis, and international difficulties.[75]
(groan!)
I know of no conservative who holds such views, but, if it says so in Wikipedia, well, it just has to be true!
Right?
LOL!
^_^
Ha! Are grunts, groans, LOL's, sarcasm, emoticons and unimaginative mockery all you have?
A worldwide resource that has the international consensus of experts and the reader is supposed to believe the words of two neo-conservative cowboys and a gun-totin' reactionary?
I win this argument, boys—especially if that's all you can muster for a rebuttal.
@Wizard of Whimsy...Whether you buy the words of this neo-cowboy or not, Wiz, is of little consequence to me. I didn't hold a gun on anyone to get them here and history will be the only indicator of whether I am correct or not. I don't mind being wrong but I hate being stupid and blindly following Obama down a path to socialism is right there in my definition of stupid. WB
More evasion, Wayne. Your habit is to ignore the facts and the irrationality of your argument and to desperately focus on a distraction—like in this last post, you use my reference to "gun-totin" which has NOTHING to do with how aligned conservative ideology and fascist ideology are.
Okay Wayne, I understand now. You're an inflexible dogmatist and your ideology demands that you believe Obama is a socialist—and all socialists should be unfairly accused and hated.
If that isn't Rush Limbaugh and Fox News, I'm Grover Norquist!
Btw, here is the definition of dogmatism . . .
dogmatism
noun
the tendency to lay down principles as incontrovertibly true, without consideration of evidence or the opinions of others : a culture of dogmatism and fanaticism.
As they say, "If the shoe fits . . ."
Wayne,
What you have here is a public school indoctrinated, teenage troll operating out of Mom's basement. After 5 months, he has less than 20 followers and only two Hubs. Even then, they are mostly pictures, videos, and cheap shots aimed at FOX.
His HubScore is a miserable 63. He has no argument. He's just a troll.
Yes everyone, please attack the messenger . . . because this guy is making my dogma look bad and I haven't the facts or the information to prove he is incorrect!
See?
Wiz, you're so busy spewing your liberal talking points and crap from Wikipedia, you wouldn't know the truth if it slapped you across the face.
My suggestion, get out of that basement, into the sunshine, and learn something about the real world. That, and grow up.
Sorry, Wayne. Couldn't resist.
Thanks for the insults, Longhunter and sorry again if my CARma ran over you DOGma!
No insults, Wiz. Just the truth and a little helpful advise. It's not my fault if you can't handle either.
Mr. Starr, Wiz is now down to 19 followers.
The boy is loosing points even as we speak, soon to be just a bad memory.
I stand corrected, Longhunter—thanks for the offhand advice and for seeking council (via email) from your coconspirators—er, I mean co-job-creators.
Standing corrected should be something you're getting use to, Wiz. Your welcome for the advice. A little sun would probably do you some good.
As for the emailing anyone, probably just another one of your funny, little conspiracy theories. Come on back to the forums. We can leave Wayne's hubs alone and discuss things.
Banks fund the wars, corporations provide the means and equipment and get rich. War Profiteering is the name. And poor people dying is the game.
They fight, they die, they pay more share of their life in taxes, they get blamed for everything under the sun while the true perps use their media to stultify intelligence.
Just ask decorated war vet Smedley Butler. Ask Kennedy what happens when you stand up to corporate/military power.
And don't think Obama hasn't been seriously threatened. I've read 2 accounts of it by people who should know.
Get corporations out of gvt, it will serve us. Business uses it to advance it's means over our health and well-being.
Sayonara baby!
lovemychris, truer words were never spoken—not on this hub anyway!
Longhunter, you need to look up the meaning of "offhanded."
I guess Wayne has no retort for the dogmatist charge—his diversionary subordinates seem worried.
@Love My Chris...You really miss those protest days in college during the Vietnam War don't ya, LMC...you know, everybody go down to the Army Surplus Store, buy a field jacket for the miltary effect and go marching across the campus in protest. Some things never change, huh? I figure if we can get the socialist out of the White House and the spineless whimps out of Congress, the rest will take care of itself. Let's all try a return to Constitutional Governance for a change. WB
Wizzzz, I'm well aware what "offhanded" means. I suggest you look up sarcasm, gullible, and uninformed.
Okay LH, if you and Will and Wayne promise to look up SIMPLISTIC!
@Wizard of Whimsy...Sorry I was out checking on the health of my "suborodinates". By your reference to "dogma" I take it that you think that I am simply spouting nothing less that a recorded loop of information predicting the failure of our system...as it applies in this circumstance. I am not "predicting" any thing one way or the other. I stating the observation that we have a President who seems proned to ignoring the principles of the Constitution and how that plays into our lives. He has no respect for the document and appears convinced that he knows beyond the scope of all "checks and balances" what is better for the American public. I don't care to argue that point if it be Obama, Reagan, Carter, Clinton, or Bush. What I care about is whether or not due respect is given to the Constitution and the outline that it draws for our system of government. A rogue President who is willing to exercise executive decision and circumvent the Congress to show the size of his political balls does not impress me because in the process he is violating the Constitution and undermining the design of our system. I can far more appreciate a President who is willing to respect and comply with the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and The Rule of Law. That might not seem glamourous enough to you but it lends proper respect for the basis on which this country has developed and grownin terms of democrary and due process. We do not need a rogue President of any party affiliation taking it upon himself to make the decisions for this country or to act in place of a Legistative or Judicial branch. Obama considers himself to be above those requirements and openly thumbs his nose at the Constitution in the process. Now, you can go ahead and defend that point but from my prespective (AND DOGMA) it looks like a tyrannical approach to governing. Don't tell me that he is rendered ineffective by the House majority of Republicans for he had two full years with a majority in both chambers and he chose to piss it away doing stimulus and ObamaCare...selfish, selfish, egotistical dummy! If you purpose in showing up here is to "sell" the virtues of socialism, you are so wasting your time. The folks who read my post are far too intelligent to be sucked into that utopian crap that you and Obama are selling. So, a word of advice, you are welcome here to comment but you are wasting your time attempting to recruit converts...those who read my work regularly are far more rabid than I on the concepts of individial liberty, Constitutional respect, and sustain of American values. You go ahead and sell your soul to Obama and his fold and somewhere down the line maybe you will come to realize that there was something in the world much worse than the concept of America...the concept you so willingly to throw away long before you ever showed up here. WB
Thanks for your discursive response, Wayne. Nevertheless, your statements are still unsubstantiated and biased hyperbole. You can't defend your views with facts or examples and you refuse to compare Obama's actions with some of the more significant outrages of previous administrations and congresses.
I don't expect to win your approval or even a concession to a rational fact or point of debate now and then. The purpose of this Hub seems to be a platform for you to pontificate with unproven accusations and calumny .
That's the reason for my posts here and what I've tried to point out to the fair-minded and thoughtful reader.
"The purpose of this Hub seems to be a platform for you to pontificate with unproven accusations and calumny ."
Right--and LH calls it thread-jacking if you have a different point of view.
Kudos to Wayne for not deleting you or I. Plenty of them do just that.
And Wayne--look around you. I don't have to go back to the 60's to protests...they are happening now. Only now, the World Police are beating up war vets, not just students.......how's that OK with the Rah Rah crowd?
I love to listen to Wayne on the podium. Very eloquent. Politics are complex. Finding good politicians and leaders a difficult task in modern times. BTW I liked Clinton and he left the country in pretty good shape. A good deal of the problem today comes from years of losing checks and balances in government, monopolies and lobbyists and loss of constitutional rights. The public and new generations better wake up fast. We must make education a priority to create critical thinkers. Blessings, Debby
Wayne - Now you need to understand that lovemychris really loves Obama. Anyone who worships such a narcissistic, pathological liar gives me pause to think about the power of brain washing. I reckon there might still be a few left lighting candles at his altar. Then along comes the Crasher who usually just hits the vote down button on your article because he doesn't agree to the content. That's pretty pathetic too when one thinks about it. Just sign up a Wizard to join the left wing, give me everything free crowd and the picture fleshes out even more.
Obama is a failure. His signature piece of legislation, Obamacare, is hitting around a 70% disapproval rating. It will more than likely also be struck down by the SCOTUS this coming June. Talk about crapping in Oblabber's corn flakes. It will be justice because the majority of "TAX PAYERS" didn't want it in the first place. We desire reform, not the federal nanny controlling everything.
But the aforementioned types that want to blab on with unintelligent left wing nonsense probably like it because it is another freebie they can put in their basket of government goodies. Hope and Change? Total rubbish, just more of the same with a socialist bent.
Now he's openly violating the US Constitution and being arrogant about it in the process. I wonder how some loons measure his success. Maybe using a Ouji board?
I will continue to use this video for the left wing audience so they can tell me which face is the real face of Oblabber Mouth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeYOA1sVWu0&feature
The Frog
@Wizard of Whimsy...I guess I need to hurry on over to Wikipedia and read some of those "opinions" which are offered up as if they are truly factual and post them in my defense. I'll let history defend my viewpoint and you are welcome to yours. I, for one see the edge of the cliff for this country, and I also see the man who is waving for us to come on over and jump off. I don't need Wikipedia to confirm that for me nor do I need to convince anyone else of it. If they simply look for themselves, it will be apparent. WB
@LoveMyChris...Yes there are demonstrations etc going on and they are orchestrated and led by the some of the same folks who were out there in the mid-60's looking for a way to change America. They still believe they are part of something noble while the little puppetmaster, George Soros, and his ilk sit behind the scenes manipulating and facilitating. Have you seen any demonstrations demanding respect for the Constitution and the American Flag? Don't hold your breath. You and I agree that big business needs to get out of Washington but if they go rabid environmentalist need to go with them, PAC's need to pack up, pork-barreling and the laundering of American taxpayer money through unions and organizations back into political coffers needs to end. With the current bunch, including our illustrious President, that is not a likely future occurrence. The only plan with any focus in Washington today is to spend us into oblivion, watch us self-destruct in the streets, and then pick up the pieces to form that socialist uptopia you seem to want over a free democratic republic. Obama will be the perfect choice as dictator of the new banana republic and maybe "Baby Doc" can be brought over from Haiti to assist him with his efforts to cut the pie in exactly the same size pieces. I and many others do not relish that sort of outcome and will defend captialism and democracy in the process. Individual success and achievement along with the ability to reap the rewards of it are part of the fabric of the great American dream. It is the reason people want to be here...a chance, an opportunity to raise the bar a bit in their lives. But you are too fixiated on a portion of society that has achieved significant wealth. You speak as if they have it all and leave us no opportunity to earn it ourselves. That is simply not true and I along with others do not believe that we are entitled to the rewards of their labor and investment. For now, the opportunity is out there for anyone willing to take the plunge and shoulder the risk...sometimes it ends in success and sometimes it ends in failure. Having the right to fail or achieve; the right to select an option is the foundation of liberty in this country. The ability to implement that choice is a function of our individual freedom. Freedom and liberty go hand in hand and begin to disappear when we are willing to seek security over opportunity. The more big government entwines itself into our lives the less freedom and liberty we have and the greater our false sense of security. Our power as a nation of people comes from us, its not created or granted to us by the government. The government is us, we allow ourselves to be governed by the rules which we established in the founding documents of this country. At present, we have a leadership in place willing to walk all over those documents just to see how far the point can be pushed and we have American citizens who sit here and defend those purposes. That may seem perfectly logical to you but it confuses me and makes me mad as hell. WB
Wayne - Doesn't it slay you when they use Wiki as a factual source. Lets give them the inside skinny. Anyone can post anything on Wiki and present it as fact. It always makes me chuckle when they do it because that is about misinformed and uninformed as one can get. I don't mean to be too hard on the little tykes but they need to resign from The Koolaid Slurpee Society now and get in touch with reality.
Next time they raise the debt ceiling we will be sitting at about $16.4 trillion in the red, not counting unfunded liabilities. Maybe he can explain who is going to pay for that amount of excessive spending. About $6 trillion of that belongs to none other than Obama. We can't afford all this nonsense - ideology or no ideology.
Have a nice day.
The Frog
@Debby Bruck...Much of Clinton's success came from leaving the ship of state alone to ride the wave created by those who preceded him. The exception to that would be the changes made to the Fair Housing Act which set the state for the collapse of a bubble of high risk home mortgages orchestrated by Frank & Dodd and signed into law by Clinton. Thanks for the good words, Debby! WB
@TheFrogPrince...Thanks Jim...Maybe we need to get on over to Wiki and offer up some of our slant. We have a left-wing virtual encyclopedia with the cover ripped off. Maybe we can use it to replace that old, out-dated Constitution that we have for a governance instrument with a modern slant. WB
There's that condescending ridicule again revealing more prejudice and ignorance--though I understand why you use it—you have no real ammo and are forced to use blanks.
You need to look up "Encyclopedia," Wayne and you might realize that this is a living compendium of knowledge that anyone can edit, if there are inaccuracies or mistakes.
Compare that to Fox News, a profit-making corporation owned by a right-wing billionaire committed to self-interest, more power, profits and converting our democracy into an oligarchy. They are your source for specious opinions and misleading agitprop that you parrot here.
It's ironic that George Soros gets under your skin, but the Koch brothers don't. That's called hypocrisy, plain and simple, Wayne.
Argue for your limitations and behold, they are yours!
Wayne - I'll leave it alone because I've never had the urge to live in LalaLand but thanks for the invite. LMAO
Wizzy Britches - FACTS speak for themselves. But you have to actually bother to find them. So answer my question. "WHO" is supposed to repay that $16 trillion dollars. You ready to grab your checkbook and pony up?
@Wizard of Whimsy...the fact that you miss in your observation of the wonderful functionality of that "living document" over at Wiki is that one can also alter it to "change the facts"...it works in both directions. My observations are based in common sense and life experience. I still subscribe to the the fact that 2 plus 2 equals 4...I think they got right the first time and I see no reason to reinvent the math so we can justify a change in the outcome. Government intervention and redistribution of wealth hold no positive impact for the future of America as a free nation. Personally, I don't want Obama or his ilk deciding how big my slice of the pie will be. I believe the pie is ever-growing in a properly functioning capitalist society thus my opportunity to gain a larger slice of it is ever present. Once people of Obama's mindset gain control, the pie stops growing and actually begins to shrink when the "producers" realize that the "non-producers" get the same size slice. The only thing that continues to grow is the length of the line on the "non-producing" side...all waiting for their share of that ever-shrinking pie. Man, that sounds like Utopia to me but I am not sure that it is. Maybe I'll stroll on over to Wiki and find out what Utopia might really be like. WB
"Government intervention and redistribution of wealth hold no positive impact for the future of America as a free nation."
The test of income redistribution is to take it to the extreme...suppose we all quit work and go on the government dole? Would we continue to prosper?
Obviously, the whole thing would collapse, as we are now seeing in Greece.
Wayne - There seems to be a failure on the left's part to understand that "there is no free lunch." Someone has to pay for that lunch. I reckon as long as it isn't them they're just okey-dokey with eating it.
I hope when I asked him to go get his check book it didn't run him off.
What you pointed out to Whizzy I was going to come back and mention. Anyone can go onto Wiki and take facts and replace them with fallacy. Yes, it does work both ways.
Some of these "citizens" watch way to much MSNBC and accept that dribble as factual too. Now that's also laughable.
The Frog
What we see coming from the left is constant criticism of the right, but what we never see from the left is exactly what they want.
I challenge Wizard of Whimsy and lovemychris to go to their own sites and tell us, in no uncertain terms, exactly what they want, and what they want America to become, rather than just attack the rest of us.
I just put both of them on temporary follow.
Wayne, with all due respect, your mindset forces you to live in a black and white, either/or world that has nothing to do with "common sense" or "reality"—I do believe your "experiences" have indeed shaped your attitude, however. It's made you fiercely stubborn, inflexible and, yes, "dogmatic."
What you fail to recognize is that your blinkered vision makes you misinterpret so much of what's happening today. It's not "redistribution of wealth," but outright thievery and exploitation of the middle class for what you infer as "production."
Granted, the money&power-driven weasels who have rigged the game do indeed produce "profits," but NOT for the common good—it's all for the benefit and welfare of the oligarchs who literally purchase our representatives in Washington.
You don't seem even able to admit that our government no longer represents the people, but rather represents the few who can afford to support the reelection of the politicians already in their pockets.
You may view these points as "socialist" but the purpose of our constitution (as its preamble states) is to provide ALL of us with justice, domestic tranquility, defense, freedom and promote the "general welfare." I know you view it as "welfare" and therefor "socialism," but in truth, it's about not allowing greedy bastards to stack the deck and usurp power for a select few who want all of the pie you seem to so deeply cherish.
Your attitude is not one that respects the US Constitution—it's anything but!
Wizard needs to check with the powers that be at Wiki to see if that's okay. lovemychris needs to stop loving Obama like a rock star and stick to Chris. I'm just sayin...
Advice is free Will.
The Frog
I, for one, want economic justice and fairness, Will—nothing less!
"Wayne, with all due respect, your mindset forces you to live in a black and white, either/or world that has nothing to do with "common sense" or "reality"—I do believe your "experiences" have indeed shaped your attitude, however. It's made you fiercely stubborn, inflexible and, yes, "dogmatic."
And the left lives in a fuzzy gray world where everything is nuanced and nothing is ever clearly right or wrong, so that they never have to take a firm stand on anything (other than attacking those who do take a stand).
"I, for one, want economic justice and fairness, Will—nothing less!"
Then go to your website, and tell us in detail exactly what measures you would take in America to accomplish that goal! Let's see if you have the courage to put it all on the line for all to see. No weasel words!
Wizard - Fine. Stroke me a check.
Your economic justice will come from the efforts of your hard work. Fairness exists because you live in a land of opportunity where you shouldn't just put your paw out and expect anyone else to fill it in the name of justice and fairness. Some of us have more pride than that.
I have to wonder if you folks are even conscious of the inherent pettiness and intolerance in your projections—or the childish impatience and frustration imbedded in your statements.
It always seems to become a macho-pi$$ing contest of "us" against "them"—Lord-of-The-Flies style.
I dance my own dance Will, and I don't want to waste any more time to arguing with angry and foolhardy men who just want to act out and scapegoat people whom they project their hatred towards.
I do, however, enjoy pointing out folly, ignorance and intolerance when I see it—in myself or anyone else. Actually, that might be a good title for a Hub: "Confessions of a Digital Gadfly."
What do you think Kids, will I get more "followers" and gain in ego-stature, like you upper-level commentators?
"I dance my own dance Will, and I don't want to waste any more time to arguing with angry and foolhardy men who just want to act out and scapegoat people whom they project their hatred towards."
Translation:
I refuse to go to my own website and lay out my income redistribution plan for America because it would expose me for the far-left, hyper-radical that I have become
LOL! Will you say more about YOU than me, every time you post—thanks for that!
I play tennis with a guy who always beats himself because he wants to beat me so bad, instead of learning from his mistakes. The ego is a terrible master.
There is a parable you might like to contemplate, Will . . .
"When an archer is shooting for nothing, he has all his skill. If he shoots for a trophy, he is already nervous. If he shoots for a prize of gold, he worries about his aim and sees two targets - He is out of his mind! His skill is the same in all three cases, but the prize divides him and weighs on his mind. He cares more of winning than of shooting and the need to win drains him of his power. He looks too hard on the outside and gets clumsy on the inside.
@Wizard of Whimsy...It's no wonder you disagree...you don't even understand what I write. The fact that you don't agree doesn't make it dogma...your word not mine. Our foundation is not broken but the government that employs it is and has been for some time. We don't need to throw away our principles and values because the state of the situation today is too difficult to manage in light of those "encumberances". We simply need a return to a Constitutional basis for governing. You sorely misinterpret my view of the Constitution and I certainly do not require any training to adequate understand the words which were used. I absolutely am not under any delusion that any aspect of the Constitution has any reference to "welfare" as a handout. The use of the term has always insinuated "well-being" of the masses. Now you might feel like you have been pushed out of the trough and never got your fair share which is why you want to lay the loss at the feet of the rich or those who facilitate and enable. As Americans, we all have the freedom to make choices in our life and the liberty to decide in which way we will pursue them...no one sent me a link on that...I learned it through experience. I doubt that Bill Gates or Stephen Jobs set out on their career journeys with simply a goal of getting rich...most wealthy people did not. They had a talent or a knack which they did exceedingly well or they had a vision which they turned into a reality while risking most of everything they had in the process. Do they have the right to reap the spoils...you damn right they do. We can take the road of Gates or Jobs or we can take the safe approach and go to work down at the factory making widgets. If we choose the latter, we will be rewarded for our efforts only on a relative value of our indidividual contribution to the overall effort. Some of us refer to that as fairness. The fact that you can choose your own path is the justice in the system and it applies to all of us.
I don't care if you are talking Bill Gates, Stephen Jobs, Warren Buffet, or the Kennedy clan, once they became wealthy their instincts were to guard their wealth. Buffet, rich liberal that he is, runs his mouth about the fact that he should pay more taxes. While he is making such patriotic public statements his team of tax lawyers are at work behind the scene in continuous litigation with the IRS to reduce the taxes they feel he owes. Mr.Buffet can, at any time, elect to whip out that checkbook and send the IRS more money...they'll take it and the fools we have in Washington in office will spend it faster than it can get there and we will still be in debt. It's okay to take a well-heeled wealthy conservative and assign labels to him/her like crook and thief but when the liberal side of the aisle attains wealthy, they become royalty. Teddy Kennedy spent almost a lifetime sitting in a Senate seat in Washington conjuring up his miracles with other people's money and accepting the accolades for having their best interest in mind. But Teddy hung on the dollars in his own bootlegger fortune...nobody was going to spend those on anyone else's welfare but Teddy's. Teddy loved being the hero to America and spending money that we didn't have or that which was wrangled out of hard-earned Social Security revenue streams and squander on boondoogles and pork-barreling. "We the people" are to blame for where we are, Barack Obama is simply an exploiter of that condition...it suits his intent and direction. The timing to break the back of America financially could never be better and that must have first before the sheep can be led to slaughter. Defeat lowers resistance to change.
I am fed up with big government, social welfare pork-barreling to buy votes and loyalty along with the ignorance displayed in purposely not upholding the oath of office each one swore to on taking office. "We the people" are blame and those things need to change but Barack Obama is not the man to change them for his idea of change trashes the very foundation of our existence. He is not interested in a return to Constitutional governance but only a quick ride down the road to a socialist state...that is evident in his every action.
The basis for "fairness and justice" are in place in the Constitution, The Bill of Rights, and the Rule of Law but the benefits afforded under those documents cannot be realized if the people we put into elected office kick those principles aside only to tell us that they know what is better for us.
I'll go ahead and demonstrate my ignorance and contempt a bit more for you by pointing out that the Preamble to the Constitution, plain and simply, is a statement as to the purpose of the people in defining the scope of the governance they envisioned for themselves. I didn't need a chart from Wiki to know that nor did I need to consult with a poltician to be enlightened. You go ahead and live in that gray, murky fog which there is neither black or white; that place where a woman can be "half-pregnant" and a fetus and unborn child can be construed as two different things entirely and see where that gets you. Adjusting the rules to fit the outcome leaves all of us without a centerline to keep us out of the ditch. Call it dogma or ignorance but it sure as hell has served my life quite well for a long time. WB
Wayne,
As I have demonstrated, we are wasting our time trying to get a straight answer from an internet troll.
He has been challenged to lay out his own plan for America in his own Hub, but he won't do it because it would expose him for a far-left radical. He will continue to just snipe from the sidelines, and make snarky personal attacks, because that's the only arrow in his quiver
@WillStarr...I agree with assessment, Will. Let me know when you see that hub on "fairness and justice". WB
@Wizard of Whimsy...The analogy you cite regarding the archer is the basis for why true professionals develop their minds around focus so as to not be distracted by things outside their goal. Their body already possess the physical skills to accomplish the tasks but their mind lacks discipline. That doesn't mean that they change their approach or the physical movements associated with delivering the shot...those factors are the principles on which the potential for success exists. In other words, the true professional doesn't abandon he principles that guide him hoping to change the outcome. What he does is relief the distractions. Pressure and emotinal loss of control are factors which tend to affect the novice attempting to hone his skills. My guess is your tennis playing friend is far too distracted with the antics you employ on the other side of the net to focus on his game. For that, he needs discipline not the ability to ignore the pressure. WB
"Let me know when you see that hub on "fairness and justice". WB"
Don't hold your breath.
Wayne, too many words and not enough concise communication with your reader.
First paragraph rambles and has no clear overall point. You continue to project and make false comments about me personally and what you just THINK I believe.
The second paragraph is even worse—it's longer than the first and you continue to babble on about millionaires. You evade any semblance of a rational counter argument to the obvious corruption of our democracy by ruthless capitalists who have bought our congress outright.
Gratefully, your third paragraph is not as long-winded and it is great fun to read. You are obviously filled with rage and apoplexy. This tends to make you sound like just another angry dimwit looking for a target to unload upon. Obama, evidently, is it, even though Bush and his gangster-administration did far worse to our Constitution and our collective future.
You calm down in the fourth paragraph, only to make a moot point.
The final paragraph reveals a lot about you that I don't want to go into because I don't want to embarrass you any more than you have already. Sufficed to say, that you don't seem to understand that our constitution is a delicately balanced document and so is our democracy. You seem desperate for clear cut rules and precise "centerlines" that you think will favor your ideology. But, in fact, that is a childish desire and unrealistic expectation because the constitution is intentionally vague and open-ended in order to allow people of differing views to struggle for those views.
Then you bring up abortion out of the blue and for what reason, pray tell? To get more anger off your chest? I was brought up Catholic where abortion is considered a sin against God. But I would never presume that I had the right to impose my beliefs on a woman who didn't want or couldn't afford a pregnancy. Yes let's have more unwanted and unloved children on this planet—as long as I feel better about not going to hell! If one considers the history of mayhem on this planet done in the name of God—how many lives have been "aborted" because the true-believers were so cocksure they were right in knowing what God wanted?
As far as your analysis of the Archer parable goes, it's really badly written and incomprehensible, Wayne— sorry! . . . or as a Zen master might say: "I point to the moon, but you dwell upon my finger." [Sorry, I didn't mean to sound smug, but I couldn't resist!]
@wizard of Whimsy...You know something, Wiz...WillStarr is right...you are a miserable little troll living in your mother's basement. Get the crap out of your ears, go back and read your own comments. You allude to "someone" stealing from the middle classs but you dont't seem to understand who it is. You want your share but you cannot explain who has taken it away from you. And you show as a damn critic of my writing...kiss my ass! When you get off your dumb little ass and produce 10% of what I have written here in any form, we'll all be waiting. You rove your ass around various hub peddling your non-descript bullshit as an indication of your superior intelligence? I, for one. don't buy it and you bore me with the never-ending dogma (your word, not mine) of it all. Now, you go crawl back inside that little basement cave of your and drink the warm milk your mommie left by your bunk. A good night sleep will clear your head and you will be ready for yet another day of total bullshit. Don't show up around my house telling me how incapable I am in my ability to write or communicate when you can't find your own ass with both hands. I'll be glad to clear you posts but I am done with any efforts to clear the deep fog from your brain. You wouldn't recognize "smug" if you met in the street. Amazingly, you and seemingly, only you assign some kind of know-it-all superior intellect to your posting yet you can't stay on subject or focus for any length of time. Your mission is to simply piss people off and any damn fool is capable if that given enought time. You have wasted more than enough of mine. WB
@Wizard of Whimsy...Oh, and by the damn way, I fully invited any and everyone to come by and expres their opinion on my ignorance which you seem so adept in identifying in this response. My mission in writng anythting which I choose to write has everything to do with attempting to move this country back to the roots of Constitution governance, law, and behavior. You are incapable of understanding that importance in the overall picture of the the American society so on that basis, maybe you need it exit the classroom. WB
Sorry, Wayne, did I touch a raw nerve . . . or is that just your ego exploding?
"...did I touch a raw nerve . . . or is that just your ego exploding?"
And that is the essence of a troll.
Whizzy - Everyone, but the few of you trolls who happened along, understood precisely, and concisely let me add, what Wayne communicated here. I suggest you now go watch MSNBC and put some new shine on your lame spin.
We all know trolls when we encounter them Whizzy.
The Frog
Froggy - Call me what you will, it's of no concern to me and it doesn't "piss" me off.
If you or Wayne actually said something that angered me, I would be most grateful because it would tell me something about myself that allowed me to gain a bit of self-knowledge.
It might also mean that my critic/opponent may have told me a truth that no loyal friend was willing to tell me. However, a few of my best friends, occasionally risk upsetting me when they tell me that my behavior is that of a pompous, egotistical, inflexible "principled" ass who shows no kindness or consideration for anyone else's point of view.
And Froggy, I readily admit that I can be that ass—which is why I can recognize it so quickly in another.
I'm not preoccupied with how I appear or with what others think of me. I'm only concerned about what I think and if those thoughts rule me and how they determine my present reality. I don't identify with being a writer or a poet or with anything other than being human and capable of the best and worst in human kind.
So I will leave it to a real writer and poet to express what I think rings true and resonates most with how I truly feel . . .
IF..... [by Rudyard Kipling]
IF you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:
If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:
If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: 'Hold on!'
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
' Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch,
if neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!
""I, for one, want economic justice and fairness, Will—nothing less!""
Translation: I am a far-left socialist, but I'm too cowardly to say so up front in a Hub of my own, so I troll around, hijacking the Hubs of others with meaningless drivel.
Wayne,
The sure fire troll cure is to simply delete his comments.
Yeah Wayne, otherwise, we might become more aware of our own behaviors and hypocrisies . . . and even recognize that our true enemies can be us!
Whizzy - I imagine that is why Wayne lets your comments stand. So that other readers can see some of the hypocrisy coming from the left. In this case, that would be you. FACTS speak a lot louder than empty socialist rhetoric.
As I pointed out, if you want "justice" then work for it and reap the rewards of living in the freest nation in the world and stop thinking the world OWES you anything. It does not, and neither do any of us.
Wayne can speak for himself, Froggy. Nor do I hold the view that the world owes anyone anything.
Your resentments are YOUR resentments, not mine; so please don't ascribe them to me.
If you want to live in anger and indignation because you believe all of the deceitful hyperbole about liberals, that's your prerogative—especially if it helps you feel better about yourself. The fool who persists in his folly may someday become wise.
I just know that conservatives are not my enemy and I fully understand why they want to preserve what is good about America. I also know that they're well intentioned, but some of them are rash and unwilling to accept change.
It's the xenophobic bigots and the pseudo-pious zealots who can be intolerant and hateful and can't seem to recognize it in their own behaviors.
Present company excluded of course.
Whizzy - Now don't go getting your panties in a wad. Wayne and I are friends. Imagine that Wayne and I have actually met because we have on occasions. He can answer for himself but this, being the forum that it is, allows for other users to comment to any other user.
So we get a troll on an article making absurd statements and conjectures. That would be you. You seem to think you know the people on here which you don't. You have no idea about any of us. So you draw your suppositions and assumptions. Remember what the first three letters of assume are and don't make that shoe fir your fit which you seem to be doing.
Yes, I am a fiscal conservative, very much so. I am also a Constitutionalist which it is apparent that you are not. I don't speak often, if ever from anger Whizzy, but I will speak often from concern for my country. There is no free lunch. Someone is paying for it and as long as you're not the one doing the paying I reckon all that is just copacetic with you. Anger? Hardly. Someone who thinks as you do couldn't inspire or provoke me in any way. I just shake my head that a citizen of this nation can be so damned brain washed.
I have asked you several times here certain questions and you have yet to answer them. You want to continue to come back with the same blah, blah, blah... That gets tiresome.
Now I'm almost sure, knowing Wayne as I do, that he just might address my ability to not "speak for him" but to speak with a like mind. You have no debating skills that I have yet to ascertain by your talking point remarks on this Hub. Use FACTS and not your conjecture. Using Wiki as your authoritative source seemed to give you away.
Will Starr, who I also happen to know, has suggested that you write a Hub, any Hub, on your vision for America. So we'll wait until you do. Might be a long wait though.
The Frog
This is starting to look like a Hub Tag Team, Froggy and your post is unworthy of a sincere response.
Yeah--froggy is the troll if you ask me. And always thinking he can speak for others. He's a mind reader I geuss.
And yes, there is a far-right clique here, of the TP variety. You can tell by the way they speak. Not so subtle.
And now they'll get mad at this mild assesment, after they have maliced whiz and myself and Obama....
And will, you do not need to wait for a hub on my opinion....there's plenty of them already. Go comment on there...I won't shut you up!
We voted for Obama, and the R's have done nothing but stall his gvt. SO--As they cannot see fit to do their duty to advise and consent....what legs are they standing on when they bring up the Constitution?
What legs have they at all, after George Walker Bush, Herbert Walker Bush, and Ronald RayGuns?
Anyone who was so wrong about those 3....why the H should I listen to them about Obama?
@lovemychris...I so believe you miss the point in your accusations. If you want to be a socialist and align yourself with a socialist ideology, then come on out and say it. The resistance you see here is in defense of the foundation on which this country was founded. If you so easily can toss that out the back door and run with the mindset of Obama then you deserve what comes with it eventually. That is totally your choice and I have no desire to change it. The same holds true for the Wiz. He attempts to prove some level of intellect by launching attacking on others rather than standing to defend the claims he makes. Of course that is understandable to those who have been in this discussion and others as we understand that he has not a clue what he believes. I have been patient with his ramblings to a very great extent in the hope that he might just once get on task and tell someone here what it is here really believes...that has not happened. In lieu of that fact, he shows up as a "critic" of my writing ability when he, the great intellectual know-it-all that he assigns himself to be appears to not have the will or desire to write his way out of paperbag. I don't need that advise and I don't need that distraction here. Stay on subject or get the hell out. As Americans, we do not have a failed system that needs to be thrown away, we have individuals who have prostituted that system for their own gain. We don't need to change our foundation, we need to hold people accountable as voters. I, for one, am not going to run out and embrace a socialist and his ideaology to throw away the Constition and all that goes with it in the name of "hope and change" in America. For me, that would be an exceedingly stupid choice. At the same time, if that is the choice you elect, I certainly won't stand in your way. I did not write this article to sway your opinion as a socialist. I wrote to affirm the opinion of those who consider themselves members of free and democratic society that respects the principles on which this country was founded. You can assign whatever labels you want to us but mark my word, there are a hell of lot of us, a hell of lot of us, and we are feedup with those who want to rip this country apart and reinvent it ito some kind of socialist utopia. If you do not believe that fact, then you are not paying attention. WB
Humble Brag
A form self promotion where the promoter thinks he is, almost subliminally, bragging about himself in the context of a humble statement or complaint. Everyone listening thinks he a jackass.
Sorry I can't keep up with you people with politics. I don't want to sound hateful, but if I get going about Obama and the crap going on in our wonderful country, you might see a side of me that's not too lady-like. But I a conservative member of the Tea Party. Kay
Whizzy - The last sentence you wrote above is exactly what most of the people on this post think about you. So run along now son, recess is over and take your little Obama lover who is supposed to love Chris with you. The adults here have been more than patient with the both of you.
The Frog
This country was founded on making sure the rich stay rich at the expense of everyone else?
If so--it deserves to die.
And please don't mention freedom when you want to strip it from women.
@Wizard of Whimsy...Well let this humble jackass be the first to mention that you can quit reading at any time you so desire...this is America and we still have some level of freedom and liberty. WB
@lovemychris...Shop around the international scene, I am sure there are some communal living societies out there somewhere that have not yet failed who will welcome you with open arms. If Obama continues down this road, you can bet that freedom will only be a memory over the course of time. He is dangling a false sense of security in your face every day in trade for the freedoms and liberties that you currently have. You may not see the danger in that but it is there and it is real. WB
No Wayne, that wasn't a definition for "humble," it was a definition for "humble-brag." Moreover, you can't have "liberty" and "freedom" without justice—and for only those who subscribe to YOUR beliefs and ideology. Your convenient evasions and selectivity are always revealing.
And what's your idea of justice, Wiz? Everybody gets the same no matter how hard they work? That's Socialism! There is no "liberty" or "freedom" in Socialism.
Might I suggest you and LMC get together and head for Cuba. You'll both get the Socialism you both crave, you'll get that much needed sun, and Cuba's lose will our gain. And, by all means, please take all your liberal friends with you. Oh, wait, first you'd have to have friends.
Wayne,
Whizz is a typical troll...he never takes a position himself, preferring instead to simply snipe and ridicule others with his meaningless nonsense. The best action is to simply delete everything he says if he's not willing to take a stand on anything.
I know what he wants. He wants to tear down the hated US and replace it with a dismal socialist state. That's also what lovemychris wants, but neither is willing to admit it.
Their goal is the same as Obama's...destroy America as we know it.
For me the bottom line is this. You either appreciate freedom and free enterprise or you prefer to be taken care of by the state, just like a prisoner in a maximum security prison. If that is to your liking then try to stay on welfare indefinitely or move to a country that shares your values. Perhaps Cuba would appeal to you.
The bottom line on this whole troll conversation is that if you don't like it here in the US of A then don't let the door hit ya where the sun doesn't shine as you leave.
The Frog
Obviously, the only thing you know, Will, is your own hatred.
It's always either/or for you folks and the bottom line is always about money—and your fears of losing it. If you think that's "freedom," you're still unwitting slaves to the very people who dupe and lead you around by your fear.
"Obviously, the only thing you know, Will, is your own hatred."
See? Another personal attack. That's his entire MO. He never states his own position on anything.
Troll.
So let me guess, Wizzer, we're suppose to give you and others too lazy to work all our money, thus freeing us of that fear of loosing it?
To your way of thinking, it's do anything so you don't have to leave mom's basement and work. Right? Does your mom bring you your mail at the same time she brings you your milk and cookies?
Whizzy - What most of us here really "hate" is the type of ignorance you have on open display. Get off your butt and take the bull by the horns and work hard and you just might succeed. You know, become a tax payer and productive citizen, that sort of thing.
We all make choices and have to live with the results of those choices. That's the American way. Success or failure is measured by the individual and what they are made of. If you need a Nanny then hire one.
Will - You have to have a position to state one.
The Frog
@Wizard of Whimsy...I don't recall anyone asking for a definition or taking any interest in the one offered. With regard to "justice"...I have this gut feeling that you are referring to the "social" kind. That would make sense in that your social perspective on the world says the pie is shrinking and you rightly have been given your proper share. So, it becomes the government's task to balance the scales as opposed to maybe you trying a different method. One of great things about capitalism is that it grows things so there is always room for one more person to log in on success and achievement thus earning the spoils of their efforts. We can all sit back and be envious of that, cry unfair and unjust until someone takes it aways from those who earned it and shares it equally with those who did not. If that is the justice you are looking for...we already have far too much of it in America now. WB
This is great, I feel like I'm in a game of Indian Poker with dimwits and dupes—no wonder I'm accused of arrogance.
Nothing is known of me, personally, by this crowd, yet they hurl their imagined projections and accusations—always about how lazy I am or that I make personal attacks as they relentlessly vilify me.
I really hope the unjaundiced readers out there are having as much fun with this "confederacy of dunces" as I am!
@Wizard of Whimsy...You seem to be the one sorting people into bins and assigning labels. I simply pointed out that no one asked for a definition but I do recall them requesting your impression of what "justice" might be which you have neglected in the interest of continued ridicule. I think most of us are quite clear on the point that you don't assign any intelligence or basis of reason to our opinions and say so on a quite high frequency. I think anyone speaking here will argue that you are entitled to whatever beliefs you want to have but honestly, I don't think anyone is quite sure what they are since you never really state them. You hint at them and then launch into some form of ridicule attempting to raise your intelligence quotient but never really defend a position. I don't expect everyone to agree with me but I do expect that they will defend what they actually believe in some manner. Otherwise, what is the sense of being here? Or do you just enjoy rolling in the mud? WB
We may know nothing about you other than what you've spewed here, on other hubs, and in the forums, Wizzer, but it's given us all a real good impression of who you are thus the reason for the things being said.
Simply put, we all have the impression you don't know your butt from a hole in the ground. You're a person who's only capable of slinging insults but you have no real substance, thus inconsequential.
Wayne - Intelligence? If what he writes is a measure of intelligence then we're all in big trouble. He seems intent on having the last word, as trolls are wanting to do, but other than that I'm not sure where he is adding anything of value to the conversation and content of your writing.
The Frog
More group-think, hey boys? You never disappoint and consistently exemplify GWB's "low expectations of bigotry."
And you still have no substance, Wiz. You consistently exemplify the left's ability to type a lot words and still say nothing. The sooner you realize that, the sooner we'll be rid of you.
Now you see why people don't like the Tea Party.
And why this country will never be united.
Some people think they own it.
here's a clue: you don't.
Now you see why most people don't like Liberals and Democrats.
They want to change this country into something totally different from what our founding fathers created, thus shredding our Constitution.
Here's a clue: WE WON'T LET YOU!!!
@lovemychris...You seem to have a propensity to make assumptions. Twice now you have associated me with the Tea Party Movement as if my writing is an arm as such. While I do subscribe to fiscal conservatism and constitutionally-oriented government, I held these principles and values long before any mention of the TPM, as many conservatives like me did. I don't have any axes to grind with the TPM but, at the same time, I have no affiliations with that movement no more so than I am involved with the "Occupy" crowd.
Now, I already know that you will trash every aspect of the TPM efforts and raise the "rah-rah" cheers for the efforts of the Occupy crowd. TPM is demanding fiscal responsibility and constitutional adherence in our government yet you will trash everything about them. "OWS" is oriented toward increasing the government dole in greater amounts and to more of the masses...basically more welfare on the backs of
American taxpayers yet you think the movement is just grand. Never mind that the OWS movement tracks right back to the doorsteps of the raging socialist, George Soros.
You may not place any danger on out of control spending as you see the government free to simply print more money or raise more taxes. The point you miss is that those in office will squander that money as well and our financial conditions only worsens...never improves. Obama has now accounted for one-third of the deficit spending on the books in the name of hope and change yet he has nothing to show for it and in some cases has only worsened the situation. How much deeper does the American public let him dig that hole before his term(s) of service are up.
FDR stuck around for 12 years...four of them as a self-appointed despot in violation of the rules assigned to that high office and he did it in the name of trying to pull the country out of economic depression, a feat that he had already failed out for the previous eight years. It's no wonder he was failing as the focus was on the government curing all our financial ills. If not for WWII and the industrial momentum arising from it, America would have gone down into the red financial dust of time at that point.
LBJ opened the doors for full-throttle spending with his concept of the "Great Society" and managed to pull through the legislation allowing him to spend the assets of the Social Security program on other pursuits. Of course, he had good intentions but poor accounting skills. Once that horse was out of the barn, the pork-barreling and earmark us of the money was fair game for all of them. Fiscal responsibility was not a word that was understood in Washington and that trend continued. As the excess funds began to run down, the debt began to pile up but the money kept on flowing in one direction. Raising taxes was not the answer because no one in Washington had any intention of taking any inbound revenue streams and applying them to the debt...they simply looked for new ways to spend the money.
Clinton and company set the stage for the development of the current mess by attempting to manipulate the housing market such that it grew and provided more Americans access to homes. A noble cause but an unfortunate one in that it ignored the principles of calculated risks and put the taxpayers on the hook for the bill when the market came crashing down as unqualified and quick to quit anything that doesn't look like a handout walked away from their mortgages. In the end, all we had left was a big bill for the taxpayers and a gross devaluation of home values across the nation. Just another example of the fine work our government does when it involves itself in the private sector. Barney Frank and Christopher Dodd engineered that bit of genius and Clinton signed it into law as a modification of the Fair Housing Act...LBJ would have been proud!
Now, along comes Obama touting hope and change with transparency as his backdrop. He immediately slams an undefined healthcare package down Americans' throat and at significant start up expense to a Medicare Program which was already mired in the same fiscal irresponsibility of Washington as was Social Security. He takes his majority position in Congress and pushes through over $800 billion dollars in so-called stimulus spending so that he can spend his way into saving America...a carryover of the philosophy of FDR. That money had little impact in that it took too many circular routes back to the coffers of the democrat party as opposed to making it into the mainstream of the American economy.
Add an out of control EPA with a budget increase of 125% under Obama, a do-nothing Congress filled with thieves, idiots, and rag-pickers, an ILRB with a singular focus of shutting down any business growth not associated with unions and you have the makings of a jack-boot society driven by a federal government which has grown in size by more than 17% in just three years. Add another $400 billion into the mix for last years budget extension debacle...added by Obama by the way, and mix that with another $1 trillion dollars that he recently indicated that he will need to cover the spending of government as the years works toward a close.
Personally, I think we are past the point at which some fiscal sanity should have taken over in our government. Like the European system, we are rapidly approaching the same bankruptcy cliff and driving toward it like Thelma and Louise in a runaway Ford Thunderbird with Obama and his cronies holding down the throttle. That might suit your purposes in that you dream of a socialist utopia where everything is free and easily gotten without work but it certainly is not my dream nor that of many, many, other Americans who think it is way past time that we took ownership of our country and our future. WB
LMC - It is the establishment who wants to continue all the excessive spending and expansion of the federal government who fear the TPM. Things need to change where we spend what we take in, maybe even spend less, and cut the size of the federal government and make it what the Constitution says it should be - "a limited federal government" with only the enumerated powers that are contained therein. When people start fearing adhering to the document that is the law of this land then that's pathetic. Those two things - fiscal responsibility and adherence to the US Constitution - are the cornerstone of the TPM. If those principles are feared then I suggest that people get rid of their stinkin' thinkin' as my old friend Zig Zigler is fond of saying.
I'm like Wayne, I've thought that way long before the advent of the TPM. Why? Because I've actually paid taxes for years on end as I watch the idiots on Capitol Hill waste my hard earned dollars over and over again. I'm sick of watching it myself and fed up with all the political BS that I see going on up there.
The Frog
lovemychris- Neo-Conservatives hate change because that's what progressive movements represent—even when it's for the better of the American majority. They fought to preserve slavery, Jim Crow, immigration and anything they see as a threat to their ideology and 'piece of the pie."
They're ruthless, deceitful and they have no concern for the destruction of others' lives—as long as they preserve their way of life and most of all their bank accounts, nothing else matters to them.
Their refusal to accept change also carries the seeds of their demise because change is constant and eternal—especially when what they adhere to is unjust, cruel and ignorant—like all of their enslaving causes mentioned above.
A perfect example of my thesis is the gerrymandering going on in the four new congressional districts in Texas, where the increase in the Hispanic population hinders their balance of power in Congress.
The history of America and the reason for our Constitution is really about preventing the gangsters and extortionists from stacking the deck of democracy—which, sadly, has been occurring and accelerating at an ever alarming rate ever since Barry Goldwater and the John Birchers learned how to appeal to the greedy, the fearful and the ignorant in our country.
@Wizard of Whimsy...Wiz your only center line is hope and change. You have no foundation, no port in a storm...you are simply adrift in the winds and moving about with the tide. If your references are a reinforcement to replacing our current constitutional form of government with one of a socialist ilk then you have totally convinced me that the rudder is flopping on the back of the boat. I am not worried about the pie until the socialist start serving it. At that point, it will be as big as it ever can be and rapidly begin to diminish in size downward as productivity takes a plunge downward. We "neo-conservatives" as you put it may find it miserable but we know you'll be happy or will ya? WB
The 'change' that the left talks about is the total destruction of capitalistic and prosperous America, and the tearing down of our borders. The 'change' they want is a militarily weak, socialist America so they no longer feel guilty over our success and strength.
But if we ask them directly what they mean by 'change' all we get are evasions. That's why they speak in riddles and attack others.
My how defensive we can become when we identify with . . .
Neo-con-captialism=maximize my stock options and profits at the expense of everything, even the planet that sustains us!
Neo-con-captialism=screw the public, they're free-loaders!
Neo-con-captialism=So let's NOT "change" a good thing!
I'm beginning to think LMC has come up with yet another alter personality and it's none other than Wizzer, the Wizard of Whimsy. She did it once before. Perhaps she's done it again.
Again:
"The 'change' that the left talks about is the total destruction of capitalistic and prosperous America, and the tearing down of our borders. The 'change' they want is a militarily weak, socialist America so they no longer feel guilty over our success and strength.
But if we ask them directly what they mean by 'change' all we get are evasions. That's why they speak in riddles and attack others."
Then they prove me right about their hatred of the capitalism that made America great:
"Neo-con-captialism=maximize my stock options and profits at the expense of everything, even the planet that sustains us!
Neo-con-captialism=screw the public, they're free-loaders!
Neo-con-captialism=So let's NOT "change" a good thing!"
See?
No defensiveness here...proud to be conservative; proud to be a practicing capitalist, and happy to support the Constitution. WB
Bashing Obama is perfectly fine, and I do it all of the time.
So far as Will Starr's first comment....WTF? Back that up! Provide links and data!!!
I've never yet seen ANYTHING showing that the Obama admin has created the debt that the previous amoral Bush Admin did.
Listen, I'm not a fan of B.H.O. - but I damn sure can't support much of anything done by the W.Bush admin, the murderous corporate war monger administration that Obama continued on with the same policies of...oh hell no.
In fact, the reason why I do not support Obama is because he's too similar to Bush. But everything I've ever seen shows that W. Bush created more debt than has Obama.
One of the major things that bothers me about Obama is that he's such a persuasive speaker who never backs anything up - the PERFECT person to continue on with the hideous policies of George W. Bush.
"So far as Will Starr's first comment....WTF? Back that up! Provide links and data!!!"
Sure:
"...by the end of his first term, Obama will have added as much debt as all the prior 43 presidents combined -- that was accurate enough to earn a Mostly True from PolitiFact."
true that Will! that IS a fact.
@Wesman Todd Shaw...I don't have the numbers or the link right at hand but I do remember seeing a comparison that showed the Bush Administration ran an average deficit in spending of about $600 billion dollars moving the total national debt from just over $5 trillion to $10 trillion in eight years. A good portion of that amount came with the spending of the democrat controlled Congress in the last two years. So far with Obama, the average deficit spending is running over $1.7 trillion per year and has driven the national debt above the $15 trillion dollar mark in just over three years. Two of those three years saw the Congress dominated by democrat majorities in both chambers and no real budget in place to hold spending in check. That situation continues as does the spending levels which even with the agreements recently reached have not been reduced by any significant level. The national debt will soon exceed the annual value of the GDP...by individual measures, at that point, the country is offically bankrupt. The lack of fiscal responsibility will at some point drag the value of and the confidence in the dollar to record lows which can only come back to bring hardship on the American taxpayer in the end. There is a price to be paid for a lack of fiscal responsibility. For too long now, those in Congress aided by the President have simply shoved the debt and the problems forward in time borrowing and spending their way toward prosperity. The wiggle-room for continuing on that path is getting very small if not non-existent. As a nation, we could quickly approach the same problems shared by the European countries such as Greece. While some actually believe the problem can be avoided by simply raising taxes, that is not the case since our elected ones have a proven track record of simply squandering all new revenue streams which come to the government on additional spending...there is no provision to pay off the debt in the minds of our leaders. WB
@Wesman Todd Shaw...Here is a link to an article published by NPR (National Public Radio) which tends to normally lean to the left that will offer you some information. This information was published in January 2011 and as such does not really include the spending that has taken place since but the trend is there.
You can't add Bushco's spending onto Obama's, and call it Obama's fault!
Obama put Bushco's 2 "wars" and medicare bill for big pharma on the budget--W left it on the tab.
And I want to get corporations out of making policy. Get crapitalism out of homes, heating, healthcare, food, education.
Make your money selling things people WANT, not things people NEED.
Your policies nearly did us in: we don't want to give you the power to finish the deal.
You cannot serve 2 masters.....PERIOD!
You chose the wrong Master.
You rock, Lady!
"You can't add Bushco's spending onto Obama's, and call it Obama's fault!"
Nobody is. The debt when Bush left office is the combined debt accumulated by ALL PRESIDENTS SINCE WASHINGTON!
Barack Obama is well on track to more than double that in his first term!
BTW, conservatives were very upset with Bush and the wild spending spree, asking if he had lost his veto pen!
But he was a real penny-pincher compared to Obama!
@lovemychris...I don't serve masters, you do. I elect principles and values as my core and I vote for candidates who subscribe to those in a respectful manner. You are confused when you in your assessment, the Constitution and freemarket capitalism are not in conflict, in fact, they are in perfect harmony when properly employed. Your see the Constitution has everything to do with the basis for our governance...not the framework of our economy. Capitalism is not a governming philosphy but an economic one. That might be quite a revelation to someone who subscribes to Marxism or Socialism in that the the government and the economy are one and the same. Those approaches where fully implement have only one successful track record and that is "failure". You moan and cry about the evils of corporations but show no concern for the dangers of big central government inserting itself into every facet of your life. You derive security from the presence of an all-knowing, all-seeing government without realizing that you are trading aways your liberties and your freedoms for the warmth of a false security blanket. Our liberties tell us that we will have a say in our life and how we conduct it, our freedoms tell us that we will have choices within those options. Instead, you would elect to have the government decide which mayonnaise is best on your sandwich. I seriously doubt that the comparison of Bush and Obama in terms of debt and deficit if a cooked book. This information came via NPR and everyone knows what a left-leanig liberal rag of radio outfit that is...not likely to purposely do a trip on Obama. No, at best this is his best profile in terms of that comparison. But you go on out there and find yourself something which explains it more clearly and fairly in your mind and we'll take a look. You might remember the words of Thomas Jefferson who observed that a government large enough to give you everything you want is also large enough to take everything you have. That is the master I will not serve. WB
@Wizard of Whimsy...Wow, Wiz...that is the most coherent statement you have made since you showed up here and tossed the race card on the table. These short general statements seem to work for you and most of the other folks who visit here can keep up with your superior intellect and inherent ability to reason.WB
(snicker!)
Knuckle-dragging cowboys united in ignorance and anger—what a team!
@Wizard of Whimsy...Call it what you will, Wiz. We call it democracy and we love being stupid together...all of us. WB
Hmmm, lying us into an invasion and using torture.....what principles?
Oh I know: "Mr. Vice President, 82%of the country disagrees with you"
Cheney: "So"
Unitary Executive, The Constitution is just a piece of paper, Bin-Laden? He's not even on my radar, Mission Accomplished!, Nucular Nucular Nucular.....yeah, what a beacon of morality and virtue.oooops, i just threw up my pretzels!
Or you have the principes of your new man, Romney: "Corporations are people too, you betcha"
I have 2 words for you: Jeff Perry. Romney supports him. Cofer Black, pres of Blackwater. Bain Capital....really research it, as well as his sons.
And don't forget to go back to grade school; like you did with Obama.
And ask him where he was during Vietnam--you remember Russsshhhh: Pot-Smoking Draft-Dodger (about Clinton)
Cause you know you're fair and balanced, only care about America.
@lovemychris...Do you actually really think Bush left office unaware of the location of Bin Laden? I seriously doubt that but he was not willing to risk the lives of Navy Seals and undermine the cooperation with Pakistan as a counter to India and Iran to get to one man. At the same time, you don't find it at all suspicious that Obama and company were so quick to dispose of a person who, if he was all that was claimed, given them much downstream intelligence on the terrorist movement???
Corporations are most certainly people...otherwise they are nothing more than a file folder of paper and stock. People sometimes spoil the mix and create problems just as they do in society. That does not make the concept of corporations bad. The fact that Bernie Madoff is in jail for his fraud does not make investing a worthless prospect. You want to treat the effect and not the cause and you want that treatment to extend to every aspect and be administered by a government too big to fit into the confines of the country. As long as people are involved, there are going to be some problems...that is the reason we have laws and courts.
As far as your opinions on the war on terror, maybe you should consider that Bush, as president, should have just shrugged his shoulders and done nothing...3,000 people died on our own soil and you would elect to do nothing waiting for them to come back for more. As for your reference to to Cheney, knowing the liberal media like I do, I would suggest that 82% disagreement you refer to is much aligned with a pollster's question asking in just the right manner to achieve the proper reaction...people with an axe to grind do that as well. Obama does not seem to care that over 70% of the American public does not want his healthcare plan...he is going to shove it down our throats in the name of his legacy as a president. He has no other alternative except to elect failure as the theme.
I personally am not a big Romney fan because I don't think he possess the conservative moxie to do the job. He is a fence straddling moderate at best and probably always will be. At the same time, the media is so focused on keeping him in the limelight that some of the others running are left in the dark. The media is more interested in swaying the nomination than on informing the public. That was evident in George Stepenopoulus' line of question in the NH debates. He made contraception a centerpiece to the debate for no other reason than to aid the liberal cause...that is some fine journalistic objectivity.
Principles and values are a function of the documents given to us by the Founders. The shortcomings, mistakes, and errors committed by human beings in the process of applying them do not make the documents damanged goods...the damaged goods are the people. Obama is making it clear that he has no use for those documents and attempts at every turn to either circumvent or ignore them. At some point, he will take it further. In my mind, that is not just ignorance or abuse at work. In my mind that is an agenda with only one purpose...undermine the foundations on which this country was founded and then allow that failure to be the opportunity to instill a new government and a new philosphy of government...Marxist socialism. WB
I think Bush was working with Bin Laden. In fact, he was: Carlyle Group.
And don't you worry about Romney...he has all the Conservative Moxie now.
Repeal Roe v Wade,
Let corporations rule,
Let Israel have whatever Bibi wants: including our soldiers to fight in Iran,
No regs on business,
No regs on banks,
Regs on females, gays and immigrants
Rich get richer,
Poor get poorer,
Middle class becomes poorer still.
He's got it down!
"I think Bush was working with Bin Laden. In fact, he was: Carlyle Group."
It's official. Time to call the people in the long, white coats.
lovemychris-You shouldn't expect deluded people to acknowledge the truth about their heroes and demagogues. You'd have more success getting cats to bark like dogs.
Wizard:
Look how they can't see that much of the domestic and foreign messes we're in can be laid solidly at the feet of "St. Ronnie"
TPC-" 'splain to me Lucy!"
Actually, if truth be told, there's plenty of blame to go around. Though I was shocked the American public were taken in, I can understand it because Reagan was a likable snake-oil salesman and he believed his pitch.
I tend to trace America's present war of political division on the Bork and Thomas hearings. The D's were arrogant and foolish and pushed the right wing into a holy jihad with the birth of the reactionary think-tanks (like Cato and AEI ) funded by powerful money interests.
The Right, always better at playing dirty, knew exactly how to game the system with corporate lobby money coupled with lies, distractions and phony morality.
Mix this with a ruthlessly meretricious media billionaire, like Rupert Murdoch and deceitful demagogues like Limbaugh, Beck and Hannity, it had to become the political cesspool we are all forced to swim in today.
What ties it all together? Big Oil.
"I left wondering whether 6,000 Americans might prove to have died in New York for the royal family of Saud, or oil, or both. But I didn't have much more than insider dinner gossip to go on. I get my analysis from the standard all-American news outlets. And they've been too focused on a) anthrax and smallpox, or b) the intricacies of Muslim fanaticism, to throw any reporters at the murky ways in which international oil politics and its big players have a stake in what's unfolding.
A quick Nexis search brought up a raft of interesting leads that would keep me busy for 10 years if the economics of this war was my beat. But only two articles in the American media since September 11 have tried to describe how Big Oil might benefit from a cleanup of terrorists and other anti-American elements in the Central Asia region. One was by James Ridgeway of the Village Voice. The other was by a Hearst writer based in Paris and it was picked up only in the San Francisco Chronicle.
In other words, only the Left is connecting the dots of what the Russians have called "The Great Game" -- how oil underneath the 'stans' fits into the new world order. Here's just a small slice of what ought to provoke deeper research by American reporters with resources and talent.
The Carlyle connection means that George Bush Senior is on the payroll from private interests that have defense business before the government, while his son is president. Hmmm. As Charles Lewis of the Washington-based Center for Public Integrity has put it, "in a really peculiar way, George W. Bush could, some day, benefit financially from his own administration's decisions, through his father's investments. And that to me is a jaw-dropper."
Looks like a large number of the liberals left about have decided to drop in for appreciation day! WB
@LMC...You won't have long to worry about the middle-class of Obama continues for a second term...it will become non-existent. As for your Carlyle link, you might stop and consider that the EPA, environmentalists, and the pressures on our elected ones have pretty much placed a straggle hold on domestic oil production. Terrorist activity has a way of driving the price even higher for foreign oil especially when they attack and destroy the assets...ie,Saddam in Kuwait. Ultimately that comes out of our hide here at the pump.
Obama is certainly not doing anything to stem that situation so we can add a jump to that link that assumes that anything that benefits the Carlye Group which you believe benefits Bush must also benefit Obama. Add that to his growing portfolio of off-shoring drilling and refining in South America and his watchdog EPA that is driving the little man out of the coal production business in the USA only to turn those assets over to companies owned or controlled by George Soros who is already putting plans in place to export that coal resource to China...since their domestic reserves are estimated at about 40 years at the moment. Coal will soon lose its label as a cheap fossil fuel. I don't know whether you have noticed it or not but we don't go to the other side of the world or to other countries for that matter to buy refined gasoline...it is done as near to the point of sale as possible thus dropping over 200 billion American taxpayer dollars in gasoline refining is South America is not likely to benefit anyone here. Oh, and by the way, when Obama's term in office does end (short of him declaring himself ruler for life), he won't need to work for Carlyle...Soros already has a job for him and you can bet it will more than utilize any connections he has from his time in office. If we are to be 80% dependent on central Asian oil, it will be much to the credit of Obama killing off domestic production and rejecting pipelines to Canada...that should really make for a great payoff for the Bush investments, if there are any. Mr. Lewis (of the Center for Public Integrity) seems to want to shore up the integrity he is attempting to create on the basis of hearsay and estimated conjecture.WB
@Wizard of Whimsy...Isn't it a shame that the left cannot manage to keep a so-called "deceitful demogogue" on the air due to the boredom levels they generate with the listening public. Just in case you have not noticed, the little socialist hedge fund thief, George Soros, has all his wagons, think tanks, and dirty propanda agencies lined up on the left. He and his buzzards can't wait for Obama to finish off the USA financially so there will be no further resistance to his acts of world manipulation. You boy, Clinton, rode a long wave of success credit driven by the actions of the Reagan Administration...a very long one and easily identifiable in that Clinton spent most of his time in office doing nothing or fighting legislative gridlock. He did manage to team up with Barney Frank and Chris Dodd long enough to set the stage for the collapsing housing market bubble that showed up in 2008. Othewise, most of what he did in office showed up on a blue dress down at the dry cleaners. WB
Wayne, keep dancing with your delusions, it's of no concern to me.
I can't help it if appealing to hate and fear is a commercial success in your America.
The 'liberal' idea makes room for human weakness, for the bare desperation of what it is to be alive in this world, for the underdog and those who struggle for justice but don't want to live in the fear that breeds hate and blame and the exclusion of everything different.
hyperbole
Noun
1) A way of emphasizing what you are saying by describing it as far more extreme than it really is
An example:
"The 'liberal' idea makes room for human weakness, for the bare desperation of what it is to be alive in this world, for the underdog and those who struggle for justice but don't want to live in the fear that breeds hate and blame and the exclusion of everything different."
The 'liberal idea' IS a weakness, a mental disease that festers in the minds of the lazy that won't do for themselves but rather do all they can to suck the life blood out an economy and society, waiting for the government to give them a handout.
Will, thanks for a tip of your ten-gallon hat to my tactics.
Longhunter, if your only tool is a hammer—every solution is a nail—you're a one trick pony!
That's the best you could come up with, Wizzy? Why am I not surprised?
I guess there's no cure for the 'liberal idea' disease except maturity and honesty with oneself. Obviously, in your case, we'll be waiting a while for you to gain both.
@Wizard of Whimsy...Oh, and you might also note that you are wrong about Longhunter as well, he's not a one trick pony. I've seen one and his name is Obama. WB
Wayne, Will, Frog, Longhunter -- just a tip of this old lady's 10-gallon Stetson (I got one of them hats, too and damned proud to wear it) to all of you for your patience and persistence in dealing so effectively with the troll and his friends. It's folks like you, who'll stand up and be counted, who are going to make the difference in turning the mess our country's in around. Thank you. Sis
@Angela Blair...One thing keeps me going, Sis...I know that there are so many people out here who approach our government and or economy with just plain good old common sense. These are people who know that results come from hard work and determination and that two and two equals four. These are people who see where we are currently headed and want it turned around pronto. These are people who know the folks of this country deserve far better than the current direction will ever bring them, and you lady, are one of them. I applaud you for speaking up and sending additional assurance that us "ten-gallon hat neo-conservatives" will not go quickly into the night and see our country taken down into the drain of socialist destruction. WB
Thank you, Wayne -- hope folks like you can keep going and keep us all from the drain of socialist destruction. I'm mad as hell -- obviously -- but in no way am I qualified to state my case as effectively as you guys do. There's a lot of folks out here like me -- we know what we want to happen, how we want it to happen and what results we want to see. We don't however, have good, grounded information as to what's happened or exactly why it's happened and are in no way expert enough to defend what we know, want or hope to see. I'm one of those persons who knew this was all wrong and going the wrong way from the get-go -- but wasn't informed enough to present an intelligent case. If one's gonna get in the fray (in my opinion) you gotta be horseback and I'm still ridin' a Shetland. So -- it's my great pleasure to have you guys speak up for me. I'm gaining knowledge daily -- might just pop out of the chute any day now! LOL! Best, Sis
Let me geuss.....you people deserve your social security and medicare: socialism
Big oil and gas and mega-farms deserve subsidies: socialism
Romney's company deserved for tax monies to bail it out,then reaping huge profits: high-way robbery
Israel deserves 8 mil + a day: socialism for another country!
300,000 Americans who are worth a mil or more deserve tax breaks: reverse robin-hood
Companies deserve tax breaks to move jobs overseas:socialism and anti-Americanism
....But don't you dare talk about unemployment insurance and food stamps for those whose jobs were sacrificed on the alter of 52-mil-a-year CEO's: No Good Bums
Is that about right?
Shame on you!
My mom recently told me about this new medical procedure they are working on--laser something, will cost $50,000 to do, and medicare will pay for it!
Reminds me of Romney when he was gvr here in Mass . He cut masshealth eye and teeth care for kids, but didn't mind that tax-payers foot the bill for a 78 yr old man to have a new procedure, so he could "get back on the golf course".
Yeah....I'd say from experience....all you anti-socialists really don't mind socialism, as long as it's directed where YOU want it to go!
Thank you, Ms. Blair, for your kind words.
The troll and his friends, as you so rightfully refer to them, have screamed and spewed their way into the Book of Irrelevant and Unwanted as their demagoguery grows with each posting. Eventually they'll fall by the wayside as the useless and delusional "individuals" that they've made themselves into. IMHO, the sooner the better.
You just can't fix crazy.
@LMC...With regard to Social Security and Medicare...working Americans funded those benefits over their working lives. Washington squandered it on other forms of spending. There are no handouts there...just the hope that will get some of the money back that we paid into the programs. That is not welfare nor is it redistribution of wealth as is seen in a socialist setting. Regarding oil companies, I am not particularly in favor of subsidies to them but once something gets started in Washington, there seems to be little that can be done to reverse it on either side of the aisle.
The state run healthcare plane in place in MA is one of the strong reasons that I do not want to see Romney as the nominee. If what you point out is in fact true, it is representative of what we can expect from a national system only the effective will be largely reversed...those who are seniors will and need medical attention will receive less benefit than they would on Medicare. The government will practice "selective" medicine which is what those who have pushed through national healthcare have blame the insurance companies for doing all along. In the free society, I nor anyone else should be forced or penalized to purchase health insurance...government run or any other way. That is the creep of socialism at the door...no liberty, no freedom of choice. Even a large central government with all its ability cannot protect a fool from himself...we need to wake up to that fact and quit spending taxpayer money trying.
We certainly do not have a perfect system in what we have but that should not be the basis for throwing away our foundation such as the Constitution and our freemarket economy in the name of the actions of "some Americans". The basis for our government system is strong and viable...it is the selfish greed of politicians that cause shortcomings. Unfortunately, we, as a public, have not held our elected ones accountable for their actions. We need to change that and get back to the basics that we were founded on.
I am all for people have assistance when they need it. Food Stamps have a place in our society as does unemployment insurance protection. But, in both cases, we have to do more to stop people from "gaming" the system merely to get out of working for a living. To continue to grow that process in nothing more than our elected officials using taxpayer dollars that we don't have to buy votes.
CEO's of some companies are rewarded quite nicely...that is up to their board of directors and their shareholders as to how that is executed as a contract. Do I totally support it in terms of the level of compensation...no but I support their right in a democratic society as a free market entity to do it. The bottomline will be the eventual litmus test as to whether or not a company can afford such services. The marketplace will also determine to value of those services. We see that in professional sports and in the media.
Almost 50% of the American public pays not taxes at all...none. That sector flies under the radar while the call goes out to raise the taxes on the folks who are earning more money and who already pay more taxes. Taxing the high end wealth in this country will not bring in the revenue that taxing the middle class will raise...there are far too many middle class wage earner including a large chunk of small business owners. As the cost of government grows; as the welfare state expands to support more and more of that type of spending (mainly in the interest of buying voters), the pressure rises to tax the middle class again and again. In the process, we don't eliminate any of the debt, we just raise the bar higher on creative spending and the problems continue and pressures come back to raise taxes again. That is how the pie gets smaller...eventually those earning income in the middle class give up and join those producing little or nothing and paying no taxes in the process. Eventually the number lined up to receive pieces of the pie far exceed the number strapped with providing the pie and the system collapses.
I do not make that observation to appear cold-hearted or cruel in my views. I apply simple common sense. I would like to bring every homeless animal I see home and feed them but it is not possible nor practical to do. If I did, sooner or later I would exhaust the funds and the facilties available to do it and I would not eliminate the problem. America has to get on a path back to "what we can afford" in terms of our government and we have to do it in such a manner that our savings in those areas go to pay down our debt load if we are to ever regain our fiscal and financial health as a nation.
One last observation with regard to corporations, I see churches pay handsome salaries and benefits to get the preachers they want in their pulpit. This is a decision made by the directors (deacons) of the congregation. In many cases, the salary and benefits for the preacher far exceeds the cross-section of that represented in the congregation yet I don't hear public outcry over that. On top of that churches do not pay taxes. I am sure most of them will tell you that they cannot fill their pulpits unless they pony up and compete in the marketplace for the minister who fits their needs. Do I agree with paying all that money to the preacher...not really, but I respect the churches right and freedom to make that decision as a congregation and elect to go in that direction...that is the true value of what we have in a Constitution form of government...freedom and liberty...not to steal and cheat or break the law mind you but to pursue those things which are our inalienable rights as citizens of this country. When we turn control of those things over to the government, we slowly but steadily lose those liberties and freedoms as a people. WB
Nothing is more dangerous than a dogmatist who can only retain one idea in his head—whether that fanatic be a jihadist who dies for Allah in the next world or a NeoCon whose God is money and power in this world.
@Wizard of Whimsy...now as soon as you can go ahead and tell us who you might be referring to in this comment, we can get on with the business of considering it. WB
He probably doesn't have the guts, Wayne. He might prove me wrong, hiding behind the anonymity of his HP avatar. We'll have to see if Wizzy will step up. It would be something new for him, if he does.
No boys it's not an indictment, it's a perception of some peoples' behavior and mindset as it relates to ideology and politics.
You either understand it or you don't. You either agree with it wholly, in part or not at all.
You either see yourself in it or you don't.
It's not as simplistic as "Obama is a socialist and therefore evil to America."
Sorry to give you something more mentally taxing than you are normally accustomed to on the Rush Limbaugh Show.
So what you're doing is making a blanket comparison of all Conservatives to "a jihadist who dies for Allah in the next world," like to the people who were responsible for 3,000 American murders on 9-11-01.
That would be like someone saying "all Liberals are little Hitlers because they tend to dislike our support of Israel and the killing of millions of Jews wasn't enough in their opinion."
Am I to believe you'd agree with that assessment as well, Wizzer, since it's obvious from your postings you're a Liberal.
No, Longhunter, you may well see it as a "blanket comparison" because of the examples I used.
Nevertheless, I'm making an observation that a commitment to one overarching ideology makes people dangerous because , after a while, they only see their own ideological idea in a kind of binary game of good & bad and they are inflexible in their beliefs.
The Jihadi sees only true-believers or infidels. The Neo-Cons see it all in terms of money=power and poverty=weakness.
This kind of inflexibility makes governing impossible with war and destruction (physical, political, economic, theological) inevitable.
"The Jihadi sees only true-believers or infidels. The Neo-Cons see it all in terms of money=power and poverty=weakness."
And the liberals see...what?
Why did you leave them out?
More evasions—you challenge me, call me out, I respond and then you try to interrogate me without addressing the issues behind your conservative stance. You're rigging the game, fellas—but then that's what you do . . . and then accuse me of doing it.
There doesn't seem to be an original idea among all of you—just parroting of reactionary boilerplate.
"...you may well see it as a "blanket comparison" because of the examples I used."
Wizzy, might I suggest you use a comparison that doesn't compare Conservatives to murdering Islamic extremist anymore than ALL Liberals should be compared to Hitler.
Some Conservatives may be rigid in the beliefs but certainly no more rigid than what you and others have put on display here for all to see.
For this thing called America to work, there has to be flexibility on both sides. That's something that's sorely lacking from both sides of the aisle in Congress but even more so from President Barack Hussein Obama.
Okay. Replace the Jihadi with Jesus Christ and his willingness to be crucified for his beliefs—especially his beliefs as they relate to his sermon on the Mount.
Are NEO-Con's beliefs closer to Jesus' ideology or is a liberal's beliefs closer?
You have got to be kidding about Obama. Longhunter!
"You have got to be kidding about Obama. Longhunter!"
Nope, not in the least, Wizz.
"More evasions—you challenge me, call me out, I respond and then you try to interrogate me without addressing the issues behind your conservative stance. You're rigging the game, fellas—but then that's what you do . . . and then accuse me of doing it."
This!!They do it all the time!
BTW....my grandmother never worked, yet collected social security.
My mother worked part-time, after us kids were grown: she's collecting my dad's SS.
AND--after 4 years, you use up all that you ever put in.
so...this notion of earned money is correct, up to a point. If you live 4 years after collecting, you are "on the dole". As my mother is, as my gramma was...and so was yours.
So, don't tell me they deserve it and poor moms with kids do not.
Or poor families.
Or veterans of war.
Or the unemployed.
Disabled.
Any number of others who need a hand. We should be providing MORE!
After all, Bachman got $250,000!
You just gotta wonder if Liberals drool when they type this crap.
lovemycris - You just gave them the perfect opportunity to evade my question with an insult—another thing they like to do while they blame you for the behavior.
No insult, Wizzy, just a personal observation.
On your question, as a Christian, I don't put Jesus Christ in a category. From what I know of Him, He would shun both sides. It's only us as humans that take sides. As one of those humans and a believer in Jesus Christ, I do find it odd to see a Liberal bring Him up even though you did so only in trying to put me and other Conservatives down. That doesn't surprise me in the least.
Before I go further, I want to ask you something, Wizzer. You can answer or not. That's up to you.
Since you brought Him up, are you a believer in Jesus Christ?
Why believe and then don't follow the mandates???
Insulting people is Christ-Like? Give me a break! That's why people don't like Christians...they use it to pat their own back without actually displaying the Spirit of it.
You have them pegged Whiz.
I'm not perfect, LMC, but I am forgiven.
As for the insults, is it Christ-like to sling an occasional one here or there? Nope, but I decided a while back to give as good as I get. I tried turning the other cheek and got it slapped as well. I decided to fight back. If you don't like it or the truth, that's your problem.
As for hating Christians, I first thought you did so as a hobby but then I remembered from dealing with you in the past that you hate EVERYTHING including yourself and your own life so Christians are just another thing on your LOOOOOONG list.
Me and Wizzer got a few things to work out but at least I think we might come around to being able to have a reasonable debate. You, on the other hand, are a lost cause.
Oh, wait, was that an insult? NAAAAA, just being honest. Can you handle it?
Hate? Where did I say hate? You can't handle a simple conversation. You don't listen, only condemn.
You and I have one thing in common, Wiz...neither one of us know what the hell you're babbling about.
Longhunter, to answer your question—I believe in Christ, Allah, The Tao and Enlightenment. I'll sleep with any of them in order to grow spiritually, in love, kindness and respect for the entire Universe.
I find I can't believe in capitalism or socialism, but rather believe we should be stewards of every aspect of nature that sustains us as well as all creatures and beings on this sad and beautiful little planet of ours.
That is not to say I don't agree with lovemychris's frustration with the attitudes around here.
I'll presume that Will doesn't speak for you, LH.
I respect that, Wizard, as a person's religion and how they may or may not practice it is a very personal thing.
I do believe in Capitalism, not Socialism. I, too, believe we should be good stewards of what God gave us, realizing that, if we are, God will take care of us and what He has created.
As for LMC's frustration with attitudes, she has one of the biggest ones here and more than a few are just as frustrated with her and it. I count myself as one. That may or may not get fixed but, then again, it's not all up to only me.
As for Mr. Starr, he doesn't need me to speak up for him but I will say he is a good man. A kind and gentle soul. He's like anyone else here on HP. He wants to be treated with the respect he's earned. I won't pretend to speak for Mr. Starr but I have a feeling if you do that, you'll get the same in return. You two won't always agree but you'll have some good, spirited conversations and, if you'll keep an open mind, you'll learn a thing or two.
"As for LMC's frustration with attitudes, she has one of the biggest ones here and more than a few are just as frustrated with her and it. I count myself as one. That may or may not get fixed but, then again, it's not all up to only me."
So, how many if you are working to get me kicked off here? You Constitution-Loving people--except for the 1st, 4th and 8th amendments?
@Wizard of Whimsy...The mentally taxing part is not understanding that you think we are stubborn and bullheaded but that you use your statement to describe our inability to embrace other alternatives and concepts when it appears that the same conclusion could be applied to yourself. You are as dogmatic about the woes of democracy, constitutional government, and the economic free-market as you are gleeful with any concept that is found on the road to a socialist society. You never really get there in terms of making the point (with the exception of ridiculing others for their beliefs)but you leave enough on the table that drive the conclusions in that direction. We are evil, misguided people with only our own selfish concerns who care little for others and their welfare...that is your concept of any of us on the right side of the aisle defending the foundation and roots of our country. You are willing to throw all of that in the trash for any concept that embraces your definition of fairness and justice. Apparently Obama's brand of socialism is just what the doctor ordered in your case. If that is your choice, fine...go with it. This is still America and thank God (can I say that now?) you still have the right to choose. That right may disappear if you get the world that you want but you are not likely concerned over such trivial ideas. Had our founders not been a dogmatic breed, this country likely would not be here today in any form that we recognize. Luckily they were the type of people who learned much from the lessons of domination, tyranny and the lack of freedom/liberty for the individual. Luckily they had enough dedication and motivation along with compassion for their fellow man to remain dogmatically on a course which produced that vision. Knowing they had that resolve, I find it quite upsetting when someone comes along and suggests that we toss it all aside and just try to think of something new. Call me a fool if you will but I can look past the flaws of mankind and still see a foundation of government and economics that has very strong merit and much promise and I elect to defend it dogmatically if you will. WB
@Wizard of Whimsy...Come on..."We are rigging the issues?" Hell, I wrote the piece that is driving this discussion. I bared my butt on how I feel and why and have tried to put forth as much detail as I can as to why I believe those things. We have literally begged you to state your stand specifically on anything and you more often not just reply by assigning us some new found label and kicking the can down the road. If what it is you believe has that much substance, go ahead and lay it out for us. I don't think there is a person here that is not big enough to say that they can respect your opinion if you put it out there in a reasonable fashion. But, starting on a a footing of assuming that I am a racist with your opening comments is not what I would call a "proper footing" and it takes away from your ability to credibly make your point. Assigning labels and ridicule will not cause me to doubt what I believe and embrace a totally different politic. Until the fears I associate with concepts that have totally failed other people in this world are proven to be unfounded, I do not plan to go there nor would I advise anyone else to do that. When I find a limb in the tree that is a reliable perch, I keep my feet wrapped around it and wait for the strong winds to blow...because they will and your resolve to stay on that limb will be greatly tested along with a litany of utopian carrots that will be dangled in your face to get you off the limb. Arguing for the sake of argument achieves nothing. WB
@LMC...I have not said that people who need a hand should not get it and most probably are. As to Social Security...yes the system takes care of those who had no chance to pay into it early on and it takes care of those who stayed home and supported breadwinners while they worked...of which my mother is a prime example. That system has some very good merits...properly managed from conception. The fact of the matter that bothers me is that it has been totally mismanaged by our elected folks on both sides of the aisle since LBJ was in office and we, as a voting public, have held no one accountable for that mismanagement. Instead, we want to let the politicians convince us that we have nothing coming. Our money simply was taken on the basis of false promises. If that is the case, how long do we continue the lie and take people's money giving them that expectation. How long do we NOT hold the government accountable for the deceit? I am not hanging this around the neck of liberals with the exception that it was LBJ and company's idea to spend the money and place IOU's on the books for it and that ballooned into what it is today...a disaster in the making.
There are few things that the government touches that do not eventually end in the worst case scenario given that those in elected office cannot leave it alone when it does work. Clinton's manipulation of a false housing market is a good example...eventually the cows come home. Free markets stand on their own and the government needs to get out of the private sector and for the most part out of the economy. Our current situation is not going to improve economically until someone takes the reins of government and backs that mule out of road in order that the ebb and flow of a free functioning market can return. If we are to believe in Obama's economics, we might as well all work for the government...wow, think of the synergy of that concept! WB
@Wizard of Whimsy...Okay! JC, Allah, and Spiritual Enlightenment. Now, tell us, which one of them was the clincher in getting you in bed with Obama? WB
Here's a chart on how gvt programs work: compare it to a corporation, where the bulk goes to the ceo.
http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/01/chart-da
But here's where gvt sux: facilitaing these policies! Tax cuts for wealthy, leading to tax increases on the middle!
FACT: The top 1% saw a 278% increase in real income from 1979 to 2007. The middle 60% had an increase of less than 40%
LH, thanks for your response—more later.
Good grief, Wayne you are soooo verbose—you need a good editor who'll spank your big ego as often as necessary—IMHO . . . and with all due respect to your passion and skills.
But more importantly, I'm playing a different game here than you may think I'm playing. And I don't mean that with any condescension.
I may be mistaken and you may prove me wrong with some things poorly expressed on my part, or with me losing patience and directly insulting you, but in all sincerity, my intent was to focus on the behaviors and the personas—not the genuine human beings behind the bravado and the repartee.
I admit to intentionally riling you all up, because I found your attitudes so knee-jerk and typical of the Texas culture—namely: a swaggering machismo and anti-intelectual, religiosity that I experienced all too often when I was in the Air Force there and in Mississippi.
Sufficed to say, with regard to my 'beliefs," I have come to a time in my life when I see them for the illusions that they are. And I am not using "illusions" in a pejorative sense here, but rather in the Hindu sense of "maya." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_(illusion))
I minored in religious philosophy in my undergraduate studies and, as mentioned before, I love all religions—but as ideas that can only point to enlightenment and awareness of the sacred in life—which is essentially human love, kindness and sacrifice.
I have to go now but I'm sure I'll get whacked for any and all in this post—especially Wikipedia—so be it and have a ball!
"So, how many if you are working to get me kicked off here?"
The paranoia has set in. Not I, LMC. I will say it doesn't surprise me given you attitude and presentation.
Oh ok...you didn't say many people have a problem with me, and it remains to be seen what can be done about it. But it's not up to YOU ALONE. So--I assume there are others....in fact, I know there are.
No use putting time and effort into writing hubs because they get flagged and voted down.
Always banned in forums, even my sock-puppet banned for life.
And for what? My politcal views?
And you all just go on your merry ways insulting and smearing. Must be nice.
@lovemychris...Gee LMC, I have no intention of banning you or deleting your posts unless they just get too personal and the same rules apply for others as well. I have posted everything you have offered up in this venue in an attempt to be as fair and just as I can be as host. I think it is reasonable to say that we live in tense times and the feelings on both sides of the aisle run high. In many ways that is good because when people get engaged, they also get informed and make choices which are more aligned with how they feel and think. That is a freedom we all share and if we are to be good voters, we have to be engaged. I think we could all do a better job of managing our emotions when we have these discussions and put that energy into presenting our viewpoint and anything we can find to back it up. When we get emotional, we usually start taking cheap shots at each other and no one really comes out of that a winner. Never has there been a war or a fist fight for that matter where the countries or the people involved on each side walked away likeing each other better with their problems solved. I have a very deep fear that we are losing our common basis of belief as a people. Not the liberal or the conservative aspects of it but just the basic premises that were shared beliefs and commonalities in the beginning. "Party-Think" has taken over the individual's ability to think for his or her own self and make choices. We are inundated with polls that predicate the outcome of everything and it leaves one to wonder why we even bother to hold the election if everyone is so sure of the outcome based on the polls. That was never the intent. People were suppose to have a voice and to be able to vote their conscience and beliefs and it should be that way today. We may differ on how we would like the outcome of an election to be but regardless of which side of the aisle you sit on, all of us should want it to be an honest, legal process and be representative of the desires of the people. That sounds easy but in this day and time, there are folks who will steal an election to keep themselves in the winner's circle...the end justifies the means. As a people, we cannot tolerate those, regardless of politcal affiliation, who want to do things that take away our Constitutional rights, liberties, and freedoms. We must call them on it when it happens and we must hold them accountable for their actions. Eventually, those who follow get the message that we are paying attention. WB
LMC, I have no idea if there are others trying to get you thrown off HP. It honestly wouldn't surprise me if there were but I can assure you I'm NOT one of them. If you're pointing your finger at me, you're wasting time aiming in the wrong direction, lady.
You wrote: "And for what? My politcal views?"
Perhaps it's not your political views, LMC, but rather your attitude and presentation. Here's the impression I got from dealing with you months ago. You can take or leave it. I really could not care less but here goes.
Your posts say it all, LMC. You're one pissed off individual, devoid of all happiness, and you hate everything and everybody. You HATE yourself, your life, your job, your boss, Republicans, Conservatives, Bush, Cheney, Corporations, Israel....the list goes on and on and on. You say you don't hate but it certainly appears that way? It's certainly the impression you gave me! Maybe others got the same impression. Think about it.
You seem like you might be an intelligent person, LMC, but it's lost COMPLETELY in your holier-than-thou presentation and attitude that, frankly, makes you seem more than a little nuts sometimes. That's not intended as a insult, just an observation.
As for me, yes, I have some faults and can be a REAL SMARTASS when I want to be. Liberals tend to bring that out of me. At least I try to make my posts in hubs and forums focus on the subject matter presented. I don't always succeed but I try. You, on the other hand, are like the parent who's ALWAYS screaming and I just tune you out.
You probably won't like what I wrote here, LMC, but it was and is my impression and, frankly, it's a waste. I would much rather have a conversation and maybe even learn something. I've also been known to teach a thing or two as well.
Again, take it or leave it. I care not which and you can look elsewhere on the blame game. When it comes to you, my 'give a damn' broke a long time ago.
Now, I apologize to Wayne for taking up space on his comments section. I'm sorry, Wayne, for going completely off subject.
Lh & Wayne- Thanks for the sincere and rational retorts above and the new comity is a most welcomed surprise. You're dead-nuts right of course—labels, exaggerations and accusations only promote agitation which disrupts communication and a meeting of minds.
Sadly, the further out your opponent sits on the opposite end of the political seesaw, the further out YOU are forced to sit in order to compensate and maintain a relative balance.
Wrt:"@Wizard of Whimsy...Okay! JC, Allah, and Spiritual Enlightenment. Now, tell us, which one of them was the clincher in getting you in bed with Obama? WB"
I sense a sarcastic tone in this, however, in candor, Wayne, Obama has been a disappointment to me because he was conciliatory to those who overtly declared they would do everything to make sure he was defeated. R's play hardball and take the game as a battle to the death with the "The Great Satan=The Liberal Establishment."
Nevertheless, I view Obama's behaviors, infinitely more "Christian" and ethical than the behaviors of his opponents in Congress and the right wing pundits who have lied and misinformed the American public for political gain.
Enlightenment hasn't anything to do with "being in bed with Obama." We suffered for eight excruciating years with a prep-school bully who swaggered around as a Texas good 'ol boy. He (and the arrogant fools who manipulated him) brought America, the government, politics, the economy and the Constitution to the present impasse. By no stretch of the imagination was it solely Obama.
All this said, however, I don't see any of it as crucial at this point. No matter how much one rails about socialism or capitalism, religion or evil, greed or prosperity, the facts tell all of us all that there is "good capitalism" and there is "bad capitalism," genuine Christian behavior and phony religious behavior, good governmental behavior and bad governmental behavior, good leadership and bad leadership.
What I read in this thread was not remotely objective or reasonable in terms of recognizing the varying degrees and distinctions of the issues and facts. There was no genuine effort to be fair or tolerant of an opposing view.
Personally, I thought: "Okay, you want to politically mud wrestle—no holds barred?" Fine! So I fought with the same kind of attitude. But I've never taken "the game" seriously or have I seen it as a fight with 'the Devil" that has to be won or "God and the good guys" will lose and all will be lost. I know you are all well intentioned and mean well—but a great many injustices have occurred by the well-meaning. Although I would insult, ridicule and condescend consciously, at times, I got the impression that your side was doing it "unconsciously"—that is to say, I got the sense you weren't even recognizing your own biases and prejudices.
To find out, I tried to provoke you into anger and emotion to see what you were made of. I retained the mask of The Wizard to put you even more off balance and was able to discern quite a lot from your projections about whom you think I am. (By the way, I really enjoyed the comment about me being a "young kid in my mother's basement!")
FYI Department: I keep my Wizard persona because I have worked for the State Department and may do so again—so my anonymity will remain. I share this information, not to try and impress, but to share the facts.
I heard a radio interview with Ben Kingsley, who played Gandhi and he mentioned a quote, inaccurately attributed to Gandhi, that actually came from the movie's screen-writer: "An "eye for an eye" makes the whole world go blind!"
I think this to be sage advice for all of us—liberal or conservative, believer or non-believer. America is at the precipice and I'm looking for the "aware people" who understand and appreciate this fact.
We don't need anymore reckless and inflexible fanatics who can't compromise their principle for the good of America.
That's all I really wish to say.
@Wizard of Whimsy...Hey, Wiz, I didn't frame the question very nicely but I was seriously interested in your answer. I have heard various people discuss their alignment with Obama but none for those reasons so you peaked my curiosity. There are a number of things you point out here that I agree with and I think, as Americans, we have to find those common grounds again and try to build out from them so that we do sustain a basis of commonality for our nation. I can certainly compromise and find it a wise choice in doing so if it stays within the bounds. When we start to trample the Constitution and the rights of our citizens in the name of accomplishing something else, it should cause all of us to pause and question whether the outcome justifies the means. Some level of change is inevitable in order to continue to progress but I don't believe we should lose our core principles and values in the process of implementing some modifications. The world is not going to slow down or speed up regardless of what I think. I am fully aware of that reality but I also still subscribe to the belief that my vote counts for something so I do think the individual has some worth in the total process. I think if you will go back and look at this piece which started all this discuss you will find that my point is simply to say that when someone tells you that we can do better or we can succeed, out to know what they are talking about specifically. Otherwise, it is a just a rah-rah to get the juices flowing and buy some acceptance. It is an unfinished sentence that really says, "we can solve anything together (if you just believe what I do and follow me)." That may be a true statement but the person who is following needs to know where we are headed and why. That's the point...Obama just happens to be the guy in the barrel at this point in time. I have no interest in seeing any president fail at the job becaue that ultimate affects all of us in a bad way but I do not want to hand over the keys when I don't like the direction the individual is headed. WB
From the North Pole to the South Pole there is evidence that the current monetary system is broke beyond repair. No solutions can be found if we look to Big Governments - nor Big Business. The solution lies in each of us as individuals realizing "it is time for mankind to give up the struggle to survive, and learn to love life and love living" .... to look to Big Business or Big Government to be a solution - will only delay the corrections society as a whole requires. :-) That's the flute we need to be playing!
@Neil Sperling...There is much truth in what you point out in your comment. Basically none of us can be happy with our environment and surroundings unless we have attained a happiness and sense of peace and calm within ourselves. We basically come into this world alone and we leave it alone...nothing or anyone guarantees us anything except the moment we are living in. The rest is simply hopes and dreams. Thanks much for the comment. WB
We're not alone, IMO...never was nor ever will be.
And all I can say to you LH, is right back atcha...and many of you others on "that side if the aisle" as well...
If you think you come of as just people with a different point of view, but no hatred, think again.
"And all I can say to you LH, is right back atcha...and many of you others on "that side if the aisle" as well...
If you think you come of as just people with a different point of view, but no hatred, think again."
Here's proof that some people will never learn. Doesn't surprise me at all. I tried. I'm done.
Wayne, I have no disagreements with anything you've expressed and of course your vote and voice counts. I wouldn't want you to abandon your core principles or want to trample on anyone's rights given by the Constitution.
An analogy: A democracy is a kind of navigational balancing act on a boat that sustains us in all kinds of seas and weather conditions. There can only be one captain and one crew—chosen by the majority of its passengers.
With this in mind, and without fixing any blame on previous captains and crews or present ones—I get it. You think Obama is not a very good captain and you have no confidence in his seamanship.
I would argue that I have no confidence in the present candidates who want to replace him. None of them have captained our vessel ever—especially in the raging storms and seas Obama has been forced to sail in. Moreover, our ship is still for the most part intact even with a sometimes mutinous crew.
I've tried to convey my rationale for staying with Obama without stepping on any toes because you seemed sincere in your curiosity about my genuine view.
I vaguely recall a line that said: We are all angels with one wing, some have left wings and others have right wings—but the ONLY way we can ever fly is to embrace the other who has the wing we don't have.
That's what America was, Wayne, and I celebrate her; but it's the America that's divided and dying now that we both morn and need to repair—together.
On edit: That's what America was, Wayne, and I celebrate her; but it's the America that's divided and SINKING now that we both morn and need to repair—together.
No response, Wayne?
@Wizard of Whimsy...Sorry, I didn't get a notice of comment on the system. I agree with that point...damage has been done to the original ship over time and has been ignored by those we have sent to office. I think we have been a naive society in many ways totally trusting far too many elected officials and not wanting to believe that they would sell us out as a country simply to line their own pockets and fulfill their own selfishness needs. Some of that I attribute to the "party system" which becomes like filling in a multiple choice quize for its participants...you cannot form the answer...it's decided for you. At best you can only pick the closest fit. That is normally where the party line and I split in our thinking and I begin to move to the independent line. We have to put some accountability back into our system in some way so that we send the message to all who want to hold office that they answer to the American people first and foremost and if they break that trust there will be consequences. The road to getting there will be as long as the road that brought us here and I am not sure we have the time left to accomplish it. WB
Thanks Wayne. Let's hope for better days, better attitudes and better communication, while we recommit to preserving all of life's blessings, peacefully.
@Wizard of Whimsy...Ditto on that! WB
lovemychris Level 5 Commenter 4 months ago
…”Yes We Can”….”Yes We Can What?”
Wait for the Republicans to get over their hissy-fit at having to share, and start doing their job!